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Topic: How would you tag <Song here...>? (Read 29004 times) previous topic - next topic
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How would you tag <Song here...>?

Guys,

How would you tag

Timbaland feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E. - Shock Value (2007) - The Way I Are

Case: featuring

I thought of two ways:

1/
Name: The Way I Are
Artist: Timbaland feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.
AlbumArtist: Timbaland
Album: Shock Value

2/
Name: The Way I Are (feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.)
Artist: Timbaland
AlbumArtist: Timbaland
Album: Shock Value

1/ gets my current vote so far.

If anybody else have a similar with a different scenario, I hope you find this thread useful to ask so we can participate.

Thanks,
McoreD

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #1 –
More often than not, I would choose option #2, especially on albums from one artist.
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #2 –
Ahh, the "featured" artist debate.  Where do we put them, Track or Artist tag?

My rules are simple, if not a bit vague:

1 - Is it a duet?  'Islands in the Stream' by Kenny Rodgers and Dolly Parton (  ) is a duet.  Duet artists are not  "featured" artists and do not go in the Track tag, they go in the Artist tag.
2 - Is the "featured" artist on every track of the album?  "Juxtapose" (the 1999 release by Tricky) featured DJ Muggs and Grease on all tracks.  These featured ("with") artists do not go in the Track tag, they go in the Artist tag.
3 - Is P. Diddy going to be insulted that you placed a wanna-be up-and-comer he is giving a break to in the same tag as him?  "featured" artists who are making a cameo on the track do not belong in the Artitst tag, IMHO, they belong in the Track tag.

In summation - if the artists are of equal (or near equal) value (to the track) they both go in the Artist tag.  If one (or more) artists are little more than garnish on the plate - they stay in the Track tag.
Creature of habit.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #3 –
I might add, if it's a compilation disc, I just tag it as the inlay card listed the tracks and artists.  Hey, that's the way they intended to list them.
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #4 –
Great read.

To make things more interesting, how about this track:

This time it is a remix performed by another artist.

Case: featuring + Remix

1/
Name: The Way I Are (Michel Kovacs Remix)
Artist: Timbaland feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.
AlbumArtist: Timbaland
Album: The Way I Are

versus.

2/
Name: The Way I Are (feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.) (Michel Kovacs Remix)
Artist: Timbaland
AlbumArtist: Timbaland
Album: The Way I Are

Soap,

The way I understand your convention:

If the second artist contributes almost 50% then they are duet and goes in Artist tag as Artist 1 & Artist 2.
Small contribution goes in Track with brackets (feat. Artist 2).

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #5 –
This is my bet:

"The Way I Are (feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.) [Michel Kovacs Remix]"
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #6 –
I also noticed the trend in Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition) album by Michael Jackson, "With" was used instead of "feat.".

Case: With

Name: Beat It 2008
Artist: Michael Jackson (With Fergie)
AlbumArtist: Michael Jackson
Album: Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition)

Name: Billie Jean 2008
Artist: Michael Jackson (With Kanye West)
AlbumArtist: Michael Jackson
Album: Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition)

Name: The Girl Is Mine 2008
Artist: Michael Jackson (With Will.I.Am)
AlbumArtist: Michael Jackson
Album: Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition)

Name: Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' 2008
Artist: Michael Jackson (With Akon)
AlbumArtist: Michael Jackson
Album: Thriller (25th Anniversary Edition)

I guess this is to imply it is a duet?



Quote from: Rio on
This is my bet:
"The Way I Are (feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.) [Michel Kovacs Remix]"


Rio,

Wow.. this didn't think about using square brackets to make it visually more appealing. Nice one.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #7 –
Judging from the collaboration of Kanye West and Michael Jackson, the track Billie Jean 2008 is not a duet.

[quote name='Rio' post='554042' date='Mar 21 2008, 22:03']
This is my bet:
"The Way I Are (feat. Keri Hilson & D.O.E.) [Michel Kovacs Remix]"
[/quote]

Rio,

Wow.. this didn't think about using square brackets to make it visually more appealing. Nice one.
[/quote]

Thanks. I just got the idea from the ubernet people back then, they had this naming convention (like kinda ten commandments).

Anyway, to give credit to the *inlay card* (or the producer/whoever), I would tag and name the tracks as it is.
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #8 –
Things are much clearer now.

I wished there was a known Rules Set / Convention like for Capitalization of tags: http://aitech.ac.jp/~ckelly/midi/help/caps.html

We could even have one in the HA Wiki.

Notes:

feat. - used for featuring artist
With - used when more than featuring
& or and  - used in Duet
vs.  - used in DJ Mixing

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Rio on
I might add, if it's a compilation disc, I just tag it as the inlay card listed the tracks and artists.  Hey, that's the way they intended to list them.

I could not more strongly disagree with this statement.
The marketing department makes the inlays for many artists.  Do not confuse marketing and promo designed artwork and labeling with recording artist intent.


Quote from: ~*McoreD*~ on
If the second artist contributes almost 50% then they are duet and goes in Artist tag as Artist 1 & Artist 2.
Small contribution goes in Track with brackets (feat. Artist 2).

Basically, yes.
Artist tag for essential members, Track tag for supporting cast.
We all know some hip-hop artists will include the studio janitor if he happens to walk by in the hallway during a recording session.

This is all, though, My Humble Opinion.  I'm not right and you're not wrong however you do it.
Creature of habit.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #10 –
I stand corrected... the square bracket is not part of the uberstandard... http://home.wanadoo.nl/jadegraaf/ubernet.o...berStandard.htm

Quote from: Soap on
Quote from: Rio on

I might add, if it's a compilation disc, I just tag it as the inlay card listed the tracks and artists.  Hey, that's the way they intended to list them.

I could not more strongly disagree with this statement.
The marketing department makes the inlays for many artists.  Do not confuse marketing and promo designed artwork and labeling with recording artist intent.

Ok, whosever intentions it may be, would it be wrong to just copy the tracklist as it is?
"Listen to me...
Never take unsolicited advice..."

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #11 –
Even though i don't have remixes and stuff to complicate my tagging scheme, this is the one I use:

1. When there is a guest artist (i.e. album is done by someone who features guests):
Artist: <the album's artist>
Album: <unchanged>
Title: <title> (with <the guest artist>)

e.g.
Artist: Ray Charles
Album: Genius Loves Company
Title: Here We Go Again (with Norah Jones)

2. Multiple Guests (there is a clear album artist, but one or more guests feature:
Artist, Album are same as above.
Title: <Title> (with Guest1, Guest2, Guest3)
(I don't use and or & etc)

e.g. Track Listing:
Artist: Bela Fleck
Album: Little Worlds
Title: The Last Jam (with Derek Trucks, Jerry Douglas, Bernie Williams)

3. (Hardest Case) When a bunch of musicians get together for a side project, without a well defined band name (unfortunately this is VERY common in Jazz music  ):
Artist: Artist 1
Album: <Album> (Artist2, Artist 3)
Title: <Title>

(the picking of Artist1 is usually pretty arbitrary, but i just use the artist who has the most albums in my collection). E.g.

Artist: Jonas Hellborg
Album: Art Metal (with Mattias Eklundh, Jens Johansson, Anders Johansson, Selvaganesh)
Title: Muthucutpor

-OR-
Artist: George Brooks
Album: Summit (with Zakir Hussain, Kai Eckhardt, Steve Smith, Fareed Haque, Taufiq Qureshi)
Title: Outer Sea



I really want to move from this scheme to using Multiple Artists for the album, but i still have to figure out which artist i want to file the album under (plus i need to set an album artist to enable last.fm submissions, which sort of defeats the purpose)

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #12 –
1) there is no wrong way to tag your own library
2) #2 would be my preference
3) "With" and "Feat." are equal in my library
4) remixes go after the featured artist in my library
5) Duets I normally go with artist = artist01 & artist02. I tend to convert any such "and" to "&" for consistency
6) I standarized on Musicbrainz formatting/metadata and if I come across any instances where it does not match the above, I simply change it within my library to be consistent with the above. If I don't catch it, then I simply don't worry about it until I happen to notice it and then perhaps I will 'fix' it to be consistent with the above.

edit:

if a featured artist applies to all tracks, such as:

Kiss (feat. Tom Jones) then it goes in the album title and not the tracks.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #13 –
Title: The Way I Are
Version: Michel Kovacs Remix
Artist: Timbaland
Featuring: Keri Hilson; D.O.E.
Album: Shock Value
Date: 2007

And as its from compilation
Album Artist: Various

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #14 –
I made on this way (fill up everything I can):

Track Title: Fire Garden Suite (Bull Whip / Pusa Road / Angel Food / Taurus Bulba)
Album: Fire Garden
Album Artist: Steve Vai / Fire Garden
Track Artist: "blank"
Year:1996
Disc: 1 / 1
Composer: Steve Vai
Copyright: © 1996 Sony Music Entertaiment Inc.
WWW: www.vai.com
ENCODED BY: Exact Audio Copy  ("Extraction mode") (When extracted with it, if not will stay blank)
COMENT: LAME XX [-encoding settings] (Ex.: LAME 3.97 [-V2 --vbr-new] / NERO AAC 1.1.3.2 [-q 0.3] )

If the album is a re-master the copyright will define it. Ex.:  © 1982, 2001 Sony Music Entertaiment Inc. 
If it's a Special 30th Edition Album: Album: XX (Special 30th Edition)

Duets in an "normal" album will put (feat.XX) on the track
In a compilation throw out the feat. and put in the artist field.

All the albums are stored in folders:
Artist / (Year) Album / One File Per Track, covers (made by me) & Playlist
The name of the files are formatted on this way:
Artist=1              "Track Number - Track Title" (throwin' out everything that i Can)
Artist= Various    "Track Number - Track Artist - Track Title" (throwin' out everything that i Can)
Sorry for my bad english.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #15 –
Quote from: kanak on
3. (Hardest Case) When a bunch of musicians get together for a side project, without a well defined band name (unfortunately this is VERY common in Jazz music  ):
Artist: Artist 1
Album: <Album> (Artist2, Artist 3)
Title: <Title>

(the picking of Artist1 is usually pretty arbitrary, but i just use the artist who has the most albums in my collection). E.g.

Artist: Jonas Hellborg
Album: Art Metal (with Mattias Eklundh, Jens Johansson, Anders Johansson, Selvaganesh)
Title: Muthucutpor

-OR-
Artist: George Brooks
Album: Summit (with Zakir Hussain, Kai Eckhardt, Steve Smith, Fareed Haque, Taufiq Qureshi)
Title: Outer Sea

I really want to move from this scheme to using Multiple Artists for the album, but i still have to figure out which artist i want to file the album under (plus i need to set an album artist to enable last.fm submissions, which sort of defeats the purpose)


Haven't seen that happening before: appending Artist names in the Album tag. Interesting!

Here is how I would handle / think about the case.

Do all Mattias Eklundh, Jens Johansson, Anders Johansson, Selvaganesh contribute in every song? Probably not. Here I would use the AlbumArtist tag as "Various Artists". Then the rest is simple:

Name: Back Seat of Your Cadillac (New Dance Mix)
Artist: C.C. Catch
AlbumArtist: Various Artists
Album: Disco Celebration (40 Remixed Hits of the 70s & 80s)

Name: Dancing in the Dark (Reloaded)
Artist: Mike Mareen feat. Da-Freaks
AlbumArtist: Various Artists
Album: Disco Celebration (40 Remixed Hits of the 70s & 80s)

Name: I Am What I Am (Gloria's House Radio Remix)
Artist: Gloria Gaynor
AlbumArtist: Various Artists
Album: Disco Celebration (40 Remixed Hits of the 70s & 80s)

Name: She's A Lady (Studio 33 Remix)
Artist: Tom Jones
AlbumArtist: Various Artists
Album: Disco Celebration (40 Remixed Hits of the 70s & 80s)

I think this is what you were implying to do with time? Btw, Last.fm does not make use of the AlbumArtist tag which is a pity. In my opinion they should have charts for AlbumArtist also.

E.g:

Name: Tundra (Fierce dub)
Artist: Menno de Jong
AlbumArtist: Armin van Buuren
Album: A State of Trance Year Mix 2005

In this case, in Last.fm stats for Armin van Buuren would not go high at all despite how many times this song is played. It will scrobble only under Menno de Jong.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #16 –
Case: Soundtrack

This in my opinion is the most vaguely done. What's your call on this?

Ludacris - 2 Fast 2 Furious (2003) - Act A Fool

I just had a look how I had it in my library. It is a mess:

Name: Act A Fool
Artist: Ludacris
AlbumArtist: Soundtrack
Album: 2 Fast 2 Furious
Genre: Soundtrack

Some people put Sountrack in Genre tag, some put in Artist tag.

Edit: The hardest case is yet to come.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #17 –
Quote from: ~*McoreD*~ on
Ludacris - 2 Fast 2 Furious (2003) - Act A Fool

Title: Act a Fool
Artist: Ludacris
Album Artist: Various Artists
Album: 2 Fast 2 Furious OST
Genre: hip hop
Date: 2003

I add "OST" to all my soundtrack album titles, keeps things simple.
Edit: For soundtracks and compilation albums, I give track-specific genres.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #18 –
I put soundtrack in both the album artist and the genre, although I am starting to just leave the artist tags from last.fm (via picard tagger + last.fm tags plugin).

I utilize 3 'special' album artists for my library:

Soundtrack = Soundtracks/scores/musicals/etc

Techno = Techno/Electronic/dance/etc etc compilations

Various = all other regular compilations

I also use some other unique album artists for special things like:

album artist = Ministry of Sound for all ministry of sound compilations
album artist = VH1 = some of the vh1 compilations (real or mashed up ones)
album artist = billboard = some of the billboard compilations etc

basically, anything that has a large series of separate releases but are related, I will tend to group together by a common album artist if it makes sense to do so.
 

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #19 –
Case: Boxsets

In my opinion the hardest one because I don't think there is a tag in ID3v2 for boxsets.

E.g:

Name: Marguerita
Artist: Elvis Presley
AlbumArtist: Elvis Presley
Album: It Happened At The World's Fair / Fun In Acapulco
Boxset: The Original Elvis Presley Collection Boxset
Disc: 18 of 50
Genre: Rock & Roll



Name: Chiquitita
Artist: ABBA
AlbumArtist: ABBA
Album: Voulez-Vous
Boxset: The Complete Studio Recordings
Disc: 6 of 9
Genre: Pop

My workaround for it so far is to utilize the "Grouping" tag in iTunes.

Just like there is AlbumArtist after TrackArtist, I think we need a AlbumAlbum (MasterAlbum) tag. There are compilations with tracks from multiple album sources. In WMP11 I have seen Original Album tag. I am not sure if this is a standard frame in ID3v2. Could anybody please enlighten us on this?



Quote from: Mikus Rakis on
Title: The Way I Are
Version: Michel Kovacs Remix
Artist: Timbaland
Featuring: Keri Hilson; D.O.E.
Album: Shock Value
Date: 2007

And as its from compilation
Album Artist: Various


Mikus, there is a "featuring" tag?

Edit:

Some info on TALB and TOAL.


  TALB
  The 'Album/Movie/Show title' frame is intended for the title of the
  recording (or source of sound) from which the audio in the file is
  taken.

  TOAL
  The 'Original album/movie/show title' frame is intended for the title
  of the original recording (or source of sound), if for example the
  music in the file should be a cover of a previously released song.

I wonder if we can use TALB for Boxset name and TOAL for Album Name or the other way around.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #20 –
Quote from: ~*McoreD*~ on
Haven't seen that happening before: appending Artist names in the Album tag. Interesting!

Here is how I would handle / think about the case.

Do all Mattias Eklundh, Jens Johansson, Anders Johansson, Selvaganesh contribute in every song? Probably not. Here I would use the AlbumArtist tag as "Various Artists". Then the rest is simple:


Unfortunately they do .

Almost ALL of Jonas Hellborg's albums are "collaborations" with different people who form an impromptu band. Which is what makes tagging the other people's names in the album tag so allurinig.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #21 –
Quote from: sketching on
Title: Act a Fool
Artist: Ludacris
Album Artist: Various Artists
Album: 2 Fast 2 Furious OST
Genre: hip hop
Date: 2003

I add "OST" to all my soundtrack album titles, keeps things simple.
Edit: For soundtracks and compilation albums, I give track-specific genres.


I agree 100%, except I would tweak it so:
Album: 2 Fast 2 Furious (OST)

for its name is "2 Fast 2 Furious" and it is an OST.
Creature of habit.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #22 –
While we are at it...

Case: Multiple versions of the same album with differing content

I hope you all agree with this one?

Name: What Hurts The Most
Artist: Cascada
AlbumArtist: Cascada
Album: Perfect Day [UK Edition]
Boxset:
Genre: Dance

and

Name: What Hurts The Most
Artist: Cascada
AlbumArtist: Cascada
Album: Perfect Day [US Edition]
Boxset:
Genre: Dance

May be cut the " Edition" part out as an individual preference? I am not sure.

Kudos to Rio for linking to http://home.wanadoo.nl/jadegraaf/ubernet.o...berStandard.htm - it is nice to look at something already done, whether you agree or disagree.

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #23 –
Personally I would always put all the artists in the %ARTIST% tag with no exception.

Besides that, I create a custom tag where I put all the involved artists in, to make it searchable in Facets and other components

Also I put remixes in square brackets to seperate it from the many titles that already has () in it.
Can't wait for a HD-AAC encoder :P

How would you tag <Song here...>?

Reply #24 –
I use AMG/Allmusic's method, by which:

Name: The Way I Are
Artist: Timbaland; D.O.E.; Keri Hilson
AlbumArtist: Timbaland
Album: Shock Value

This works nicely as quite a few players read the artists in the Artist field separately when they are separated by semicolons.
EAC>1)fb2k>LAME3.99 -V 0 --vbr-new>WMP12 2)MAC-Extra High