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Topic: Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo (Read 28507 times) previous topic - next topic
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Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #50 –
Quote from: HotshotGG on
That's the fifth time in the last three months that somebody has made that claim to fame regarding the IPod have dubious quality. There should be a sticky thread on HA that reads "Audiophile Myths".  They are both pretty much equal according to most RMAA tests that have been performed and that I have seen overall.


Remember that the iPod suffers from clipping, distortion and non-flat frequency response if you headphones with lower impedance than the standard 32? earbuds that come with the iPod.  Considering that most high-end earbuds are 16? and therefore induce distortion in the iPod, I think the claim of poor audio quality is well-supported. 

I'm not sure whether the Zune suffers from the same poorly designed analog output circuitry.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #51 –
Even.. even if danvolker can hear 24 bits or 30 kHz or whatever (for the moment). Then it's still his problem and he will have to age into it.  In twenty years he can hear the 16 bits the way most people do.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #52 –
Quote
Here's a quick post from Anandtech comparing the iPod Touch, Classic, and Zune 80.

Overall, the 3 perform very similarly but the Zune ranks ever so slightly BEHIND the iPods.

I don't consider my iPod as an audiophile factory, but paired with a cmoy amp and some Audio Technica's, the sound is VERY acceptable (and I can take it to work, in the car, on a boat, etc.).


This is test that I actually referring to!


Quote
Remember that the iPod suffers from clipping, distortion and non-flat frequency response if you headphones with lower impedance than the standard 32Ω earbuds that come with the iPod. Considering that most high-end earbuds are 16Ω and therefore induce distortion in the iPod, I think the claim of poor audio quality is well-supported.


Well those claims are well supported it seems like it's only half of the puzzle though. Maybe I am just taking line-tests into consideration as I am just looking at the results from the test provided by anandtech. Do you have any RMAA tests or at least links to them on the web that show what you have stated? I would interested in looking at them.
budding I.T professional

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #53 –
Which iPod generation are we talking? At one point I'd have agreed with this but I thought since maybe the 5th/5.5th generation iPod sound quality has greatly improved?

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #54 –
A quick search for this question resulted in this, but it only applies to 3rd/4th gen iPods.  The one site I found for 5th gen had missing grapsh/data.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #55 –
Cd's that sound suberb on home stereo.

Holly Cole Trio - Treasure  "Talk to me Baby"

Natalie Merchant - Ophelia "Life is Sweet"
                                      " My Skin"

Unmixed recordings of Piano and Female vocal which are both difficult tests for a stereo system/

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #56 –
Personally I'd like to see more of this :
Quote
Moderation: Removed quote of previous post. Also, let's try to keep this more civil; this goes for everyone.

Can't we be civil even if we disagree?

@danvolker
I'd love to see some ABX results. Not because of TOS or because I'm that interested in lossy/lossless comparisons but because a lot of the listening tests that people refer to are done on headphones - because it's easier to spot artifacts that way - but most music is not mastered with headphone listening in mind. So, I'm more interested in finding out if somebody can spot artifacts over speakers that aren't evident over cans. I look forward to seeing some results

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #57 –
Quote from: collector on
Even.. even if danvolker can hear 24 bits or 30 kHz or whatever (for the moment). Then it's still his problem and he will have to age into it. In twenty years he can hear the 16 bits the way most people do.


Well, eventually we all age into not hearing anything at all!  If he can prove he hears differences that are hidden from the rest of us, then it seems to me that's our problem, since, all else being equal, finer listening abilities (up to a point) would allow for finer appreciation of music.  Besides, it would also mean several of the claims made against his position may not be simply correct.  (But that's if he can prove, provide abx tests that support his claims--which is highly unlikely given past experience here.  Also, regardless of the outcome, if he does take the tests, I think he deserves credit.)

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #58 –
Quote from: benski on
Remember that the iPod suffers from clipping, distortion


That's plain wrong. It's only the case if you use the built in EQ and don't have a clue what an EQ does. Music compressed to 0db can only be attenuated not boosted in any band, else you get clipping with any digital hardware, not just iPods. There have not been any reports otherwise for any iPod model. It may have been reported by noobs using EQ but you wont find any credible source for that claim.

Quote from: benski on
and non-flat frequency response if you headphones with lower impedance than the standard 32? earbuds that come with the iPod.


That's actually true. iPods until somewhere around Video 5.5 (not the Nanos) had definitely a little weak output stages. Sub 32? headphones could lack bass response because of that. Using a simple headphone amp solves the problem 100% btw. The line out you get out of an Universal Dock also never had this problem.

Quote from: benski on
Considering that most high-end earbuds are 16?


Low impedance is not an attribute of high quality. There are high class headphones way above 50? which don't have any problem even on the affected models.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #59 –
Quote
This is Not about whether we are mac or pc or linux or unix or whatever....It is about how to create a better music listening environment -- in my case, it is for my house.
Statistically, most people that began on PCs will stay on PCs, most that started on macs will stay on them, and the tiny little piece of the population that are programmers using linux or unix or whatever, will never be marketed to by the big Music distributors.


you are confusing pc with windows (i know, apple's commercial fooled you;). FYI, you can install linux on both a pc and a mac. if you're interested about the whole picture, you install windows on a pc and mac os (x) on a mac.

it does not relate to the main topic, but i just wanted to make it clear.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #60 –
On iPod low-impedance phones bass roll-off:

my recollection (fallible) is that this was first fixed in the first generation Shuffle, which is (in this context) A Long Time Ago.

Are there any other reasons to dis the sound quality of iPods, or is it all just GM vs Ford?

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #61 –
We'll know after Dan has done a procedurally correct ABX test...

*waits for Jesus to come back*
elevatorladylevitateme

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #62 –
Quote from: MichaelW on
On iPod low-impedance phones bass roll-off:

my recollection (fallible) is that this was first fixed in the first generation Shuffle, which is (in this context) A Long Time Ago.


Yes, the problem has been fixed/never existed in all the small models (Shuffle, Nano). I own a 5G that still has the flaw, though, and I think the 5.5 also still has it. But I never followed up on the issue for the later classic models. The 5G still works like a charm. I sometimes use a headphone amp for very excellent records, but usually have it hooked up via line-out, which is flawless.

Quote from: MichaelW on
Are there any other reasons to dis the sound quality of iPods, or is it all just GM vs Ford?


I think not.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #63 –
Quote from: smok3 on
you are completely buried in some sort of post-atomic audio illusion, i'am out of here.... before we start discussing things like
"Music had a vail lifted with greater depth and space, with nuances rendered with increased accuracy"


Only with Monster Cables 
 

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #64 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on

I spent some time last weekend speaking with a friend who has been doing mastering for muscians for over 20 years, primarily in jazz and piano--and only artists that are meticulous about the mastering process and sound quality. From this discussion, there are a few issues which "fly in the face" of HA "wisdoms". :-)
First, it appears virtually all sound engieers work exclusively with 24 bit sound, and it is unliklely any on HA could find one who does quality work, that could not hear the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit.
Second, the sound engineers use wave format, not flac or wmal, or any other compressed format.
In all fairness to the "faithful of the flac belief systems", this may be more about the existing mastering equipment, and potential problems with any codec or file format other than wave, for the best sound gear , than it is about how these guys think about the sound of a lossless file, but the essential point here, is that the most critcal listeners--the "sound engineers", the guys who get paid for this, DO NOT USE LOSSLESS FILES FOR PLAYBACK.
Third, it appears to me that quite a few of the HA persuasion, are far more comfortable with waveform comparision tests, than with actual listening tests for music quality comparisons....there is a geek-factor at work here, where the down-trodden can attempt to buoy themselves up over the bane of their existense, the more affluent audiophiles--or audiophools as these geeks like to describe them...Tests are created to prove the superiority of geek music ideas, and formats, and the geeks are completely clueless to the potential failures of their tests to detect music quality differences---in other words, if a wave sounds different than a flac ( on a $100,000 stereo), but a wave form comparison shows that the two formats are identical, then the geek factor gets to rejoice that they have proved the day, and the audiophools are wrong....except, there may be something not being analyzed in the wave form test--something you can hear, but that the present analysis equipment is not measuring. Recording engineers won't really talk about an issue like this, as they see it too ridiculous to waste their time on. As I said, geeks love proving they are not inferior. And they have so much to prove :-)
4th, and this is my preception of HA ....it would appear that more than half, maybe even more than 75% of HA posts are being made by people that listen to Ipods or mp3 players at least a few times per week....I find this renders their  comments about music quality to be ridiculous, since it is impossible for an Ipod playing mp3 files to play music  accurately--if these guys don't get bothered by the inaccurate music on the mp3 players, then they are not critical listeners--or at least not the kind of critical listener I would listen to for advice on music quality.

5th and final, HA as a group, should be offering a wealth of knowledge in regards to sound cards, downloaded music, and how to plan for the big changes that are coming in music distribution over the next 10 years....but instead, the geek force within it,  is running rampant, seemingly with a group mission to champion the mediocrity of mp3 music and the search for cheapest "playback equipment", as opposed to a search for "the best" equipment for playback.

There are a few main players on HA that should be respected, as I have read some good advice from them--but there are far too many others who appear to just be downtrodden geeks, with a hatred for anything better than they have.

Dan

Moderation: Removed the body of the quote but left the link to the other thread that you hijacked.  Refer to TOS #5 if you have any questions.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #65 –
@danvolker: This is wrong in so many ways that I can't even count them.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #66 –
@danvolker
it seems as you have understood absolutely nothing about the subject here.
Engineers are in the process of creating the music/file. They have to work with the file, they use wav or aiff or something like that.
Here it goes about storing the music at home. Here you can use flac.
I have about 6.000 - 7.000 CDs at home that I have ripped and stored. I stored everything twice on different HDs to be on the safe side. That goes into sizes, where it makes absolutely sense to use flac, or in my case, V2 MP3 files.....

I have a studio, were I produce my own and other music. There I record in and use wav of course...... two different pairs of shoes.

Alex

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #67 –
Alex, it's nice to hear that you have knowledge of studio recording. If you are a proffessional, then you should know most sound engineers believe they can hear the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit music...this issue goes beyond the studio, because if they can hear it at the studio, then it can be heard on a very high quality stereo.  Maybe you could work on reading comprehension a bit?

To me the 24 bit to 16 bit issue is a significant problem for HA belieff systems. The issue of wave versus flac does not seem important to me at this time...by this I mean, I don't think the geek squad here knows enough to design tests that will really prove much of anything, beyond what listening tests can show--and I expect that even on the very high end systems, that the listening difference between the flac and wav would be far less significant than the 24 bit to 16 bit differences.

To the geeks here....keep on making those tests that convince you of  "the superiority of the mediocre"...

DanV

Moderation: Removed full quote of the previous post.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #68 –
Quote from: danvolker on
First, it appears virtually all sound engieers work exclusively with 24 bit sound, and it is unliklely any on HA could find one who does quality work, that could not hear the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit.
But do you believe that 24 bit is required for every day listening?

Quote from: danvolker on
Second, the sound engineers use wave format, not flac or wmal, or any other compressed format.
In all fairness to the "faithful of the flac belief systems", this may be more about the existing mastering equipment, and potential problems with any codec or file format other than wave, for the best sound gear , than it is about how these guys think about the sound of a lossless file
I believe this to be the case.  Anyone worth their salt would know that lossless is lossless.

Quote from: danvolker on
Third, it appears to me that quite a few of the HA persuasion, are far more comfortable with waveform comparision tests, than with actual listening tests for music quality comparisons....
This is actually a complete falsehood.  Listening tests are all that count here.  Why not (re)read the terms of Service, particularly #8.

Quote from: danvolker on
4th, and this is my preception of HA ....it would appear that more than half, maybe even more than 75% of HA posts are being made by people that listen to Ipods or mp3 players at least a few times per week....I find this renders their comments about music quality to be ridiculous, since it is impossible for an Ipod playing mp3 files to play music accurately
You appear to agree that listening tests are the only way to gauge audio quality, yet are quick to point out flaws with no sign of proof.  If MP3 is so awful, why not prove it?

As for the petty name calling, please leave it in the school yard.
I'm on a horse.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #69 –
Maybe you might want to re-read some posts on this forum....virtually any time an audiophile type person has posted here, the geek squad reacts with name calling....they start with audiophool, and this is the kindest of the generic responses.
Dan

Moderation: Removed full quote of previous post.  Please learn how to post a proper reply!

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #70 –
Quote from: danvolker on
Quote from: Alexander Ostuni on
@danvolker
it seems as you have understood absolutely nothing about the subject here.
Engineers are in the process of creating the music/file. They have to work with the file, they use wav or aiff or something like that.
Here it goes about storing the music at home. Here you can use flac.
I have about 6.000 - 7.000 CDs at home that I have ripped and stored. I stored everything twice on different HDs to be on the safe side. That goes into sizes, where it makes absolutely sense to use flac, or in my case, V2 MP3 files.....

I have a studio, were I produce my own and other music. There I record in and use wav of course...... two different pairs of shoes.

Alex

Alex, it's nice to hear that you have knowledge of studio recording. If you are a proffessional, then you should know most sound engineers believe they can hear the difference between 24 bit and 16 bit music...this issue goes beyond the studio, because if they can hear it at the studio, then it can be heard on a very high quality stereo.  Maybe you could work on reading comprehension a bit?
Perhaps you should listen to your own advice.  At what point did Alex even mention 24 bit?!

It's also worth noting that there is little point in converting CD content (which Alex did discuss) to 24 bit to archive.
I'm on a horse.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #71 –
24 bit vs 16 bit has been a large topic in the recent past, and certainly relevant to quality discussions of wave files. I would not be interested in upconverting from 16 to 24...Only in gaining the original master format in completed stereo form. In other words, I would prefer to buy master recordings, and play them back in the 24 bit, high sampling rate format they were created in. If they come as a wave file when I buy one, it will stay a wave file. If I get one which is a flac or wmal, I will still be quite happy, but would be happier with the original wave :-)

Moderation: Same reason as before.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #73 –
None of which excuses your "Maybe you could work on reading comprehension a bit?" comment.

I'd like to see you stop being so offensive and start listening, and having a proper adult discussion.  An apology to Alex would be a good start.
I'm on a horse.

Music that sounds good on a really good home stereo

Reply #74 –
Hi,

thanks Synthetic Soul, but its ok with me. I too was not very kind in my posting...

By the way, never I would call myself a professional...

Cheers
Alex