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Topic: About Ripping A Cd-r (Read 3244 times) previous topic - next topic
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About Ripping A Cd-r

Hi, some say that there are differences between listening an original CD and listening a CD-r.

I'd like to know if there's any difference between an image ripped from an original CD and an image ripped from a well-made CD-r ?

The story is that i'm archiving my very precious CDs with Monkey Audio. I lost one of them which was very important to me but i still have a copy i made.
Can i get a perfect APE file ripping and compressing it or will it be worse than it would be from the original cd.

Thx.

About Ripping A Cd-r

Reply #1 –
Quote
I'd like to know if there's any difference between an image ripped from an original CD and an image ripped from a well-made CD-r ?

If the CDR was well made, there is no difference at all, exept the offset.
Some readers may introduce one or two very little errors (Hitachi GD-7500, Artec 34x CD ROM) if not used with EAC. It is also possible to introduce errors writing the CDR.
I had sometimes some errors with the Yamaha6416S writer + EasyCD creator 4.02s. Nothing important : a -90 db difference, on one sample, for the whole CD.
I could repeat it two or three times in a row. And I checked they were write errors, not read errors.
I checked about 6 CD copied with the Yamaha CRW3200 EWK at 16 and 24x with Nero 5.5.8.2, and I never got any write error.

The first source of errors is the read/write mode :
TAO : two seconds gaps, and read error between each track.
Nero prior to 5.5.7.8 : some sectors missing, audible
Reading with EasyCD 3.5, big parts missing (from several samples to several seconds)
Using old buggy Toshiba or Samsung drives : read errors
Enabling "kill zero samples" : gaps missing
Enabling "leave out gaps" : gaps missing

Then the quality of the CDs :
Scratched original : read errors
Bad quality copy : read errors

But when all is well (good quality CDR, EAC in secure mode, or test and copy mode, leaving gaps untoutched), the copy is identical to the original. It can be shifted by a tiny amount of time (usually 1/75th of a second late) if there was no offset correction, nothing important.

The question that playing a copy does not give the same sound quality of an original is controversed. The best consensus reached is that it happens only on bad quality CD players.
But even if this theory is taken into account, it doesn't affect ripping. Anyway, the question is only asked for realtime audio playback. and the fact that it is controversial is precisely because the data read is exactly the same in the original and the copy !

So use your copy, if it is well made, as you say, or if ripping with EAC returns no error with the appropriate mode, there will be no problem.

About Ripping A Cd-r

Reply #2 –
Merci Pio, t'es meme ici ! 

In fact, i forgot to mention that the copy was made from an image ripped in secure mode with EAC then burnt with EAC in DAO 8x using a Verbatim Datalife (those coloured with pink, green, blue, purple or orange that are sold with slim boxes and that are not as good as Datalife +). My "burner/ripper" is a Yamaha cr-w 2200.

Can you confirm that there won't be any difference ?

Thx

About Ripping A Cd-r

Reply #3 –
there won't be any difference.

unless you can hear it, of course. but that's a different story.

if you take a wav file and delete 500 samples from the middle of it, you won't be able to hear the difference. so it's safe to say you'll be fine.

About Ripping A Cd-r

Reply #4 –
Quote
Can you confirm that there won't be any difference ?


I can't, because I don't know if your copy is still in good state, and I don't know if your drive is working properly.
But if you test and copy it, and get the same CRC, I can say the the data you'll read (here, it's up to you to have the kill zero samples, or gaps options setup) will be OK.

Quote
if you take a wav file and delete 500 samples from the middle of it, you won't be able to hear the difference.


It depends. I once burned a mixed CD with the old bugged Nero that removed 588 samples between the tracks.
Track 1-2, not audible
Track 2-3, not audible
Track 3-4 audible...

About Ripping A Cd-r

Reply #5 –
Better late than never....

I would pull the wave off the original and the copy and do a wave comparison using EAC (or other). Better yet was taking one of the files and inverting (saw this in some other post - thought it was from Pio), and merging/superimposing (which eliminates all but the differences). Don't know what program was used, though.

Xenno
No one can be told what Ogg Vorbis is...you have to hear it for yourself
- Morpheus

About Ripping A Cd-r

Reply #6 –
Compare wav is straightforward. Invert-and-mix is much more difficult, because you have to overzoom vertically to see the little differences, and differences near the edges can be missed if you don't look closely. This is a process rather used to see if the diferences are big when there are some.