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Topic: MP2 Encoders Challenge open (Read 11716 times) previous topic - next topic
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MP2 Encoders Challenge open

I've uploaded 4 samples:
Fatboy encoded with 3 encoders @ 192 stereo psy model 1.
You'll find the original wave file and 3 codecs : SoloH, MP2 codec found in CDex (version1.13) and Toolame...

here are the samples:
MP2 Challenge !



PS: later I'll upload castanets I think...

Thank you for advance for your cooperation !

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #1 –
Not sure than fatboy.wav is the best sample for an evaluation.

sample 1 = no immediate problem
sample 2 = chocking in comparison : very strog lowpass, and smearing too
sample 3 = a bit flat compared to sample [1], and not as crisp. But nothing annoying
sample 4 = same thing as sample 2, but additionnal chirping => worst of the four

1...  5/5    (the original, I suppose ?)
2...  2.5/5
3...  4.5/5
4...  1.5/5
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder, one encoding for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #2 –
Quote
Not sure than fatboy.wav is the best sample for an evaluation.

what's the best IYHO ?

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #3 –
Quote
Quote
Not sure than fatboy.wav is the best sample for an evaluation.

what's the best IYHO ?

Try with something like 41_30.wav
Cymbals are more common in pop/rock/jazz music
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder, one encoding for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #4 –
Castanets Samples uploaded :A,B,C and D.
1,2,3 and 4 are still fatboy.

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #5 –
[span style='font-size:14pt;line-height:100%']CASTANETS.WAV :[/span]

Sample A = nothing disturbing
Sample B = strong lowpass. Guitar is distorted. Pre-echo is annoying. Annoying artifacts (pop) at second 1:0 on left channel
Sample C = smearing. Guitar is flat, and attacks are not sharp
Sample D = less flat as [3]. Guitar a bit distorted, as [2]. Smeared attacks and annoying artifacts (pop) at second 1:0 on left channel

A... 5/5
B... 2.5/5
C... 2.9/5²
D... 2.5/5

² Can't really explain why, but I find this encoding better than the two others. Less rich, but maybe more clean.
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder, one encoding for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #7 –
Fatboy:
1. 10/10
2.  8/10 (less depth)
3. 8/10  ( -"- )
4. 4/10 (very noticeable ringing)

Castanets:
1. 10/10
2. 7/10 (less depth [esp. guitar])
3. 6/10 (slightly muffled)
4. 5/10 (pop + all of above artifacts but slightly worse)

Death2: (what's this kind of music called?)
1.  10/10
2.  8/10 (slight ringing at clicks+slightly distorted noise at the begining)
3.  2.5/10 (sl. r.+distorted noise at the end+something weird in the background - more noticeable than 4)
4.  3/10 (sl. r+muffled n.+sth. w.)

Well, could you post the coders on your site, or is it illegal?
I'd like to encode some of my testing samples too...
ruxvilti'a

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #8 –
thanx to AstralStorm & guruboolez for their cooperation !

I need more participants please !!
(fatboy/CDex/Toolame).

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #9 –
please,
can anyone ABX those samples ?
thx for advance

I need statistics...

sincerely,
nick

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #10 –
I cannot hear the difference, my ears are not very good, just sample 4.flac (fatboy) has very bad artifacts and sounds much worse.

Have you also tried InterVideo Audio Encoder? They offer an DirectShow-Filter encoding MPEG Layer I, II and III, AC3 and AAC. I just found it. Unfortunately everything except MPEG Layer I / II is locked in the filter. The settings differ from the normal iso-based encoders, you have 4 quality/speed settings, dual/stereo/joint/mono setting and the bitrate. No psy-model switch.

For AAC you have Intensity, Mid/Side, PRED, TNS, Short Window, Main/LC/LTP/SSR, LFE (yes, it allows multichannel AAC), MPEG2/MPEG4 and Bitrate setting.

Unfortunately, Rule Nr.9, but maybe you want to search for a FourCC of a videocodec on http://www.fourcc.org/fcccodec.htm ? You didn´t found the FourCC?, maybe you´ll find it in the Ukraine.

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #11 –
Is it really legal ?! 

I don't think so !
sincerely,
Nick

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #12 –
Maybe in the Ukraine!

I encoded both samples with InterVideo, 192Kbit/s, High Quality for you if you don´t bought (  ) the the DS-Filter.
Maybe you can mix them into the others.
iv_fatboy.mp2 (116KB)
iv_cast.mp2 (154KB)

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #13 –
thank you for providing me those samples S_O !!   



the first: sound different from the original, preecho...
I prefere CDex or SoloH...
castanets: not enough time time to hear it...


Sincerely,
Nick

PS: I'll be back friday...so I try to test this encoder (aka try winproducer trial).
PS 2:One more time: thank you !

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #14 –
Just FYI, SoloH is pure dist10 code compiled into a fancy GUI.

I would also suggest using some other MP2 encoders:

MAenc - Seems to be another derivation of dist10

SCMPX - another dist10 suspect. Like MAenc, I never bothered to check if it's really dist10 or if there are differences.

Both of the above encoders are free.

Qdesign - commercial, quite famous. Works as a Windows ACM module.

If you want me to provide samples using QDesign, just say so.

Regards;

Roberto.

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #15 –
Based on the sample-space of the replies (2 people?), what was the preferred option?

enquiring minds want to know.
mike

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #16 –
Original sample is 1 and A.
CDex is 2 and C.
SoloH is 3 or D.
Toolame is 4 or B.

AstralStorm:
Fatboy: 
1. 10/10    WAV
2. 8/10 (less depth)  CDEX
3. 8/10 ( -"- )    SoloH
4. 4/10 (very noticeable ringing)  Toolame

Castanets:
1. 10/10    WAV
2. 7/10 (less depth [esp. guitar])  Toolame
3. 6/10 (slightly muffled)    CDex
4. 5/10 (pop + all of above artifacts but slightly worse)    SoloH


IMHO I would say:
1- SoloH
2- CDex
3-Toolame

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #17 –
Quote
Fatboy encoded with 3 encoders @ 192 stereo psy model 1.


May I ask why using of psy. model 1?

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #18 –
Psy 1 because you get higher hi-freq response and IMHO is better in tems of quality compared to Psy 2.
Yes, 192 kbps is a bit short, 224 or better would be recommandale but it's easier to find artefacts @192.

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #19 –
Psymodel 2 is usually considered much better, quality-wise, than model 1.

That's the reason, for instance, that MPC is based on model 2

Unfortunately, tooLame limits frequency of model 2 to 17kHz. It's a bug in tooLame, not a limitation in the model.

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #20 –
Just one thought - may be wrong!

I had Eric Claptons Unplugged DVD here.
The AC3 stream at 448kbit sounded that artifacted sometimes
it even didn`t do much fun to listen. The LPCM stream decoded to mp3
was much superior.

Now i am totaly new to DVDs AC3 and this LPCMs and so i may be wrong!?
Isn´t AC3 mp2 in general?

Wombat
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #21 –
Quote
Isn´t AC3 mp2 in general?

No. AC3 quality is considered similar to MP2, but they are very different coding standards.

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #22 –
Thank rj to tell me i´m wrong.

When all this was so easy, there would be no fun left.

Wombat
Is troll-adiposity coming from feederism?
With 24bit music you can listen to silence much louder!

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #23 –
rjamorim >
well, Psy 1 sounds better to me (SoloH and old CEP MP1/2 filters).
Psy 2 is a bit dull, aka, cuts @16kHz.

May be I'm wrong 
and some guys here said Ps2 is better medium BR and Psy for higher BR,   
that's why I would choose Psy1.

Sincerely,
Nick

MP2 Encoders Challenge open

Reply #24 –
Quote
rjamorim >
well, Psy 1 sounds better to me (SoloH and old CEP MP1/2 filters).
Psy 2 is a bit dull, aka, cuts @16kHz.

May be I'm wrong  
and some guys here said Ps2 is better medium BR and Psy for higher BR,   
that's why I would choose Psy1.

Certainly in toolame, psy model 1 is much better than 2 around 128kbps. Also around 192kbps stereo is much better than joint stereo. Maybe even at lower bitrates for some samples. I haven't found any audible difference between psy1 and 2 at 192kbps using stereo in the tests I've done.


IIRC Psy 2 was broken in the old CEP mp2 filters and produced really very bad results.


At 128kbps I've found SoloH can be surprisingly good on some test samples, but terrible with typical music.


I'll download your samples and have a listen, but I probably won't be able to hear the difference. I was put off downloading because it appears that you decoded the mp2s to .wav and then re-packed them using FLAC - why not just make mp2s available and save everyone some download time? To hide the original? We could do that ourselves with ABC/HR.

Cheers,
David.

EDIT: Now I've downloaded the files, I realise the filesize wasn't such a big issue. Still, some people still use modems you know!