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Topic: Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter? (Read 16169 times) previous topic - next topic
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Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Hallo everyone! I hope that this is the right subforum to post in.

I'm currently working on a studio setup that uses this audio interface http://www.tcelectronic.com/studio-konnekt-48/.

What I need is a good quality Firewire to USB adapter. None of the students working in the studio have laptops with Firewire, so we have to find a solution that works with USB without having to invest in a new expensive audio interface. I've done the usual search on amazon, but all of the results are simple €2 cable adapter, which I suspect to deliver poor audio signal quality - based on my gut feeling!

Does anyone around have experience with something similar or have knowledge on the subject? Thanks!

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #1 –
Quote from: decon on
Hallo everyone! I hope that this is the right subforum to post in.

Perhaps audio hardware would have been more appropriate than general audio.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #2 –
Quote from: decon on
but all of the results are simple €2 cable adapter, which I suspect to deliver poor audio signal quality - based on my gut feeling!


Why don't you try the cheap €2 adapter before trying to find expensive solutions to a problem which may not exist?

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #3 –
Through what means could a digital transfer interface affect audio quality at all?

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #4 –
This sounds to me like an odd studio setup where each student has their own computer to hook up to the interface instead of a dedicated workstation with a DAW and all dependencies installed and testet for stability and optimised for latency.

Through some quick googling I've come to the conclusion that a simple USB to Firewire conversion cable would at best work intermittently with the possibility of added latencies due to the difference in protocol between USB and FW.

I am assuming that the "poor audio signal quality" your gut tells you about would be related to said latency issues.

Another thing to consider is the variation in individual setup for the laptops. I've had to do some troubleshooting and subsequent disabling of wireless interface when recording due to spikes in latency and as a result noticeable lag in the sound recording. People install all kinds of things that may run in the background and have an effect on the processing power and general latency of audio hardware connected. I can't remember off hand the name of the program that i used for monitoring the computers latency but I suspect a search in the HA forum or on the web will give you a result for when you have the studio up and running.

Your best bet would be either to have all the work done on a dedicated workstation designed for audio or getting an Express Card firewire interface for the students to use when they need control over the firewire interface.

If your plan is to purchase and use several interfaces so that each student could have his own then I would advise the students to get an external firewire interface or better yet a computer which has a firewire interface already integrated.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #5 –
I've never seen an audio interface work at all over a usb to firewire converter.  You're best bet is to have students invest in a firewire express card.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #6 –
The best solution is probably to use the school's/studio's computer for recording.  Then transfer the files to the student's computers for mixing (or whatever they need to do).      A normal soundcard is OK for most monitoring, or they can use a less expensive USB interface for monitoring.  (You can get a 2-channel USB audio interface for under $200 USD.)

I'd be surprised if a firewire to USB adapter works, since the application needs to talk to the firewire driver that's talking to the firewire hardware.    It might be possible if the USB port can be made "transparent", so the application only sees the firewire port (and device) but I don't know...

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #7 –
Thanks for all your answers.

We already have a Mac Pro setup in the studio, but our students are asking if they can bring their own laptop. The laptops don't have extra slots for Firewire cards.

When I say bad quality, I mean both extra signal noise and latencies.

I'm actually a student myself, but I'm helping my teachers setting up the audio room. I haven't had any luck convincing them to buy a USB interface.

I'll try to buy the cheap converter plug, but if that doesn't work, what should I try?

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #9 –
Quote from: DVDdoug on
The best solution is probably to use the school's/studio's computer for recording.  Then transfer the files to the student's computers for mixing (or whatever they need to do).      A normal soundcard is OK for most monitoring, or they can use a less expensive USB interface for monitoring.  (You can get a 2-channel USB audio interface for under $200 USD.)

I'd be surprised if a firewire to USB adapter works, since the application needs to talk to the firewire driver that's talking to the firewire hardware.    It might be possible if the USB port can be made "transparent", so the application only sees the firewire port (and device) but I don't know...


I would like to give +1 to this suggestion from DVDdoug. It seems to me that your dilemma moves more away from audio tech and over into office politics. Informing and persuading about the benefit of a personal usb audio interface is a better alternative than purchasing a cable that at best will give intermittent performance and most likely not work at all. The novelty of plugging your personal laptop into a "massive" audio interface and going whoop! wears off when you realize that the more tedious tasks of mixing and editing can be done for the most part on surprisingly cheap hardware.

There is also the problem of DAW and dependencies that are manufacturer spesific. I encountered that problem myself with a Novation minikey I got for christmas. A fun little controller that came with two fairly decent softsynths. But when I tried to export my projects to my stationary computer with more oomph there was no chance to install the VSTs as the very legal softsynths refused to verify as genuine on my main workstation. I don't think the school will appreciate multiple installs of whatever software they have acquired for the audio room.

So in repetitive summary, recording and perhaps rendering of any konnekt 48 effects to a rough mix on the schools workstation then transfer of the wav stems to the students laptop with their preferred DAW seems to be the best solution for all involved. If the students are serious about working with audio they will eventually have to purchase some kind of external interface down the road anyway. You can get a lot of decent deals on the second hand market from retired bedroom producers.

Quote from: Fairy on
Quote from: audiofiend on
I can't remember off hand the name of the program that i used for monitoring the computers latency but I suspect a search in the HA forum or on the web will give you a result for when you have the studio up and running.


My guess is the DPC Latency Checker @ http://www.thesycon.de/deu/latency_check.shtml

Am I right?


That is spot on! Bookmarked it for prosperity and to wait for the win8 revision.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #10 –
Probably it's not possible to use a USB->FW adapter to connect the Konnekt because of in every laptop you need to install drivers for the audio interface ... depends on if the "virtual device" for FW->USB works correctly (i.e. does the Konnekt driver get installed into laptop and work properly with the FW VD).

Maybe you could find a LAN based solution which supports I/O (though, these solutions may become too complicated).

These maybe are not suitable for much...
http://www.kvraudio.com/product/wormhole_by_plasq
http://code.google.com/p/wormhole2/
http://www.audioimpressions.com/overview/audioportuniversal
http://www.fx-max.com/fxt/product.html

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #11 –
Or depending on what kind of recording you are doing, some students should be able to afford their own interface.  You can get a 2-channel interface for less than $200 USD (probably closer to $100 if you shop around).    The TASCAM US-1800 has 8 mic inputs plus some guitar & line-inputs, and you can get it for under $300 USD.

That's not cheap and it's a lot for a student if they are only going to use it for one class.  But, it's less than the cost of a laptop, a musical instrument, or a handful of textbooks. It could be a good investment for a music student who plans on doing a fair amount of recording.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #12 –
Thanks.

I've just ordered this cheap cable http://dx.com/p/usb-to-4-pin-1394-firewire...able-1-8m-33962. I'll report back on my experiences.

Maybe I've been a bit too unclear. The main problem is that students work with different DAWs. Some like Logic, some like Live, others like Reason. The workstation already in place runs ProTools, and have a lot of mixing and audio analysis tools like Waves products. This is all great if you want to just bounce over your production for mixing, but not if you want to actually produce. E.g., I use a Microbrute + Live + Maschine. I have my little setup at home, but I would much rather use the uni audio room with  5.1 genelec setup with much better room acoustics.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #13 –
Quote from: decon on
Thanks.

I've just ordered this cheap cable http://dx.com/p/usb-to-4-pin-1394-firewire...able-1-8m-33962. I'll report back on my experiences.


Looks like false advertising to me.  A simple 4 buck cable can't possibly manage the translation of the protocols that is involved. It may even be mission impossible.

One of the Amazon customer reviews says of similar product:

"I had the problem I bet you have: Camera with firewire and a computer with only USB. It LOOKS like this product will solve our problem, right? Wrong. Turns out, the only purpose of this product is it (supposedly) allows you to CHARGE your firewire device from a USB 2.0 port. But it does NOT enable DATA TRANSFER because Firewire (iEEE 1394 4-pin connector) is NOT compatible with USB 2.0 interface. So there you go. I don't know why they make this product!"

Any number of similar posts follow.

It is true that both FW and USB ports can have 5 volts on them.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #14 –
USB and FireWire are two different protocols, so any conceivable "adapter" would be a full-fledged Firewire controller that just happens to attach by USB.

When looking for a card to connect new peripheral devices to a PC,  I always prefer an internal card. If you're concerned about portability or the computer lacks PCI slots, someone might have made a Firewire card that plugs in externally by USB,  but I couldn't recommend a specific model. I would also be concerned with performance in such a set-up.

Good quality 1394 Firewire to USB adapter?

Reply #15 –
Yeah that's the plan - to find a external USB Firewire-toUSb converter-ish something. Haven't found any good products yet though.