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Topic: Portable MP3 Players with hard disks (Read 4884 times) previous topic - next topic
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Portable MP3 Players with hard disks

In the new c't magazine (issue 26/2002, coming out on Monday), there's a review of 15 hard disk-based MP3 players. Since the highly regarded c't is in german language, i will post a summary of the 10-page article. Their homepage is http://www.heise.de/ct/. If you'd like to read the complete review, please buy the mag. However, if you have any further questions about a particular model, i'll be glad to add some information.

If there are two models of one manufacturer, i will only list the points where there are differences to the other model.


Code: [Select]
Ratings:

++      very good
+       good
0       average
-       poor
--      very poor
         


Results:


Model:                  iPod Mac                        iPod Win
By:                     Apple
Price:                  650 Euro                        500 Euro

HD:                     20 GB, 1.8"                     10 GB, 1.8"
Formats:                MP3, AIFF, WAV                  "
Port:                   IEEE 1394 (FireWire)            "
Booting:                1 second                        "
Transferring 100 MB:    15 seconds                      "
Battery lasts:          10 hours                        11 hrs
Distortion factor:      0.42%                           0.49%
Dynamics:               91 db/A                         "
Max. output voltage:    0.42 V                          "
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    102 x 62 x 22                   102 x 61 x 19
Weight (in gram):       205 g                           189 g

Sound via Headphones:   +                               +
Handling:               ++                              ++
Navigation:             ++                              ++
Features:               ++                              ++

Best material quality and handling. Great in MacOS.
The MusicMatch 7.1 of the Windows version tends to crash.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Jukebox FM-Recorder             Multimedia Photo
By:                     Archos
Price:                  360 Euro                        475 Euro

HD:                     20 GB, 2.5"                     "
Formats:                MP3                             "
Port:                   USB 2.0                         USB 1.1
Booting:                14 sec                          9 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    9 sec (105 w/ USB 1.1)          110 sec
Battery lasts:          8 hrs                           "
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.02% | 90 db/A                 0.08% | 90 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.67 V                          0.59 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    112 x 81 x 29                   112 x 81 x 29
Weight:                 294 g                           295 g


Sound via Headphones:   +                               +
Handling:               +                               +
Navigation:             +                               +
Features:               ++                              ++

FM-Recorder: Radio sound not good. Fast transfers. Analogue/digital IN.
Multimedia Photo: Shows pics and videos. Analogue/digital IN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Nomad Jukebox 2                 Nomad Jukebox 3
By:                     Creative                                
Price:                  300 Euro                        400 Euro

HD:                     10 GB, 1.8"                     20 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3, WMA, WAV                   "       
Port:                   USB 2.0                         USB 1.1, IEEE 1394
Booting:                9 sec                           13 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    14 sec                          20 sec (120 w/ USB 1.1)
Battery lasts:          13.5 hrs                        11 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.05% | 93 db/A                 0.03% | 88 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.59 V                          0.92 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    130 x 123 x 32                  130 x 123 x 35
Weight:                 296 g                           382 g

Sound via Headphones:   +                               +
Handling:               0                               0
Navigation:             ++                              ++
Features:               +                               ++

Jukebox 2: Quite cheap, but complicated handling.
Jukebox 3: Great features. IR remote. Analogue/digital IN.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Nomad Jukebox Zen
By:                     Creative                                
Price:                  450 Euro

HD:                     20 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3, WMA, WAV
Port:                   USB 1.1, IEEE 1394
Booting:                5 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    20 sec
Battery lasts:          11.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.04% | 84 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.59 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    113 x 79 x 26
Weight:                 268 g        

Sound via Headphones:   +               
Handling:               +               
Navigation:             ++              
Features:               ++              

Worse display & bigger than iPod, but good handling.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Treo 15
By:                     e.Digital
Price:                  300 Euro

HD:                     15 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3, WMA
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                6 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    332 sec
Battery lasts:          6.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.08% | 76 db/A
Max. output voltage:    1.1 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    121 x 82 x 23
Weight:                 231 g    

Sound via Headphones:   -               
Handling:               0               
Navigation:             0               
Features:               0

Cheap looks. Problems with file sorting.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Nex IIe
By:                     Frontier Labs
Price:                  511 Euro

HD:                     1 GB, IBM MicroDrive
Formats:                MP3, WMA
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                7 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    2760 sec (240 w/ CompactFlash)
Battery lasts:          4 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.09% | 80 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.56 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    90 x 62 x 20
Weight:                 132 g    

Sound via Headphones:   0               
Handling:               +               
Navigation:             0               
Features:               0

Behaves like a normal drive at the PC.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  PJB-100
By:                     Hango/Uhu Trading
Price:                  850 Euro

HD:                     60 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                3 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    1080 sec
Battery lasts:          13.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.1% | 79 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.89 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    81 x 154 x 24
Weight:                 309 g 

Sound via Headphones:   ++              
Handling:               +               
Navigation:             0               
Features:               ++

Excellent Koss PortaPro headphones.
But 60 GB and USB 1.1 are no good team.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  JB 100
By:                     Jamba!
Price:                  300 Euro

HD:                     20 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3, WMA, WAV
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                11 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    191 sec
Battery lasts:          4.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.35% | 77 db/A
Max. output voltage:    1 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    123 x 88 x 35
Weight:                 334 g 

Sound via Headphones:   -
Handling:               +               
Navigation:             0               
Features:               0

Hard disk is exchangeable. Behaves like a normal drive. Mic IN.
HD accesses are audible over headphones. 4.5 hrs not enough.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  MB-660
By:                     LuxPro
Price:                  330 Euro

HD:                     20 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3, WMA
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                9 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    202 sec
Battery lasts:          5.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.12% | 82 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.51 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    93 x 133 x 28
Weight:                 280 g

Sound via Headphones:   +
Handling:               0               
Navigation:             0               
Features:               0

Behaves like a normal drive at the PC. Line-IN (bad quality).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Rio Riot
By:                     Sonicblue
Price:                  450 Euro

HD:                     20 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3, WMA
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                20 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    208 sec
Battery lasts:          12 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.01% | 88 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.52 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    97 x 140 x 36
Weight:                 334 g

Sound via Headphones:   -
Handling:               ++              
Navigation:             ++              
Features:               +

Transfers only possible via Realplayer application.
Sorting problematic. Good handling, like a gamepad.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Lyra PDP2800
By:                     Thomson
Price:                  500 Euro

HD:                     10 GB, 2.5"
Formats:                MP3 (MP3pro in 2003)
Port:                   USB 1.1
Booting:                8 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    112 sec
Battery lasts:          14.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.09% | 81 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.09 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    137 x 79 x 32
Weight:                 312 g

Sound via Headphones:   0
Handling:               +               
Navigation:             0               
Features:               +

Soon with MP3pro support.
Annoying level limiter for headphone out.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Model:                  Gigabeat
By:                     Toshiba
Price:                  500 Euro

HD:                     5 GB, 1.8"
Formats:                MP3, WMA, WAV
Port:                   USB 2.0
Booting:                5 sec
Transferring 100 MB:    40 sec
Battery lasts:          14.5 hrs
Dist. factor/Dynamics:  0.03% | 88 db/A
Max. output voltage:    0.35 V
Size (LxWxH, in mm):    112 x 73 x 23
Weight:                 235 g

Sound via Headphones:   0
Handling:               +               
Navigation:             +               
Features:               0

Encodes all music to the proprietary format ".SAT"!


- CiTay.


[span style='font-size:8pt;line-height:100%']Please link to this list, no copy&paste to other sites. I spent quite some time typing this.[/span]

Portable MP3 Players with hard disks

Reply #1 –
Info coming soon (chatroom request):

Size, weight, hard disk type.




Update: Info added.

Portable MP3 Players with hard disks

Reply #2 –
I have been looking into the Archos Jukebox FM-Recorder for a while, and it looks to me that it is a good buy.  I have a USB 2.0 adapter card on my computer, the price is right, and I like the FM and the recording capabilities.  I have heard that the Rockbox replacement firmware at http://rockbox.haxx.se/ is well liked.  The only problem I have with buying any of the hard drive players right now is support for other formats in the future.  I read at the Rockbox site that it will probably not be possible to add Ogg Vorbis or other format support to the Archos line because of certain limitations, though they hope something comes along that makes it possible.  As for the other reviewed Hard drive players, what are the chances for implementation of Vorbis decoding or other formats in the future?  Also, if possible, can you expand on the "Radio sound not good" comment, CiTay?  Finally, does anyone here have any experience with the Archos hard drive player line?
WARNING:  Changing of advanced parameters might degrade sound quality.  Modify them only if you are expirienced in audio compression!

Portable MP3 Players with hard disks

Reply #3 –
Three questions for anyone who may know:

1.) Does the PJB-100 play VBR MP3s?  Obviously -alt presets would be preferable to the included FgH encoder.

2.) Has anyone reviewed the sound of these units using high end earphones (Grados, Etymotics) or even with a headphone amp?

3.) I know this question gets asked frequently, but what is the current possibility of someone coming out with a MPC compatible player, and if it is a possibility, what kind of time frame are we looking at? 

I'd love to buy a PJB in the near future and transcode much of a 40GB MPC collection, but I'd feel like a fool to drop $500 on it and find out that the real deal (MPC compatibility) was only a few months away.  Anyway, I'll remain hopeful.

Portable MP3 Players with hard disks

Reply #4 –
What's with the huge "distortion factor" with the iPods?

I'm interpreting their "Sound via Headphones" rating as mostly a rating of the included headphones' quality, rather than purely a test of the line-out quality. Am I getting the wrong impression, you think?

Thanks for translating and typing another c't review summary. I was going to learn German, but thanks to CiTay now I don't have to! 

Portable MP3 Players with hard disks

Reply #5 –
Quote
Also, if possible, can you expand on the "Radio sound not good" comment, CiTay?

Sure. c't has noticed a quiet, but steadily audible whistling sound on the headphones during radio reception. BTW, radio recordings can be cut afterwards (but not renamed).

Quote
1.) Does the PJB-100 play VBR MP3s?


All players on these list play VBR MP3s, although the "Toshiba Gigabeat" has problems with some bitrates, most likely because it encodes all files again internally. In general, the players have problems with WMA files at bitrates above 192 kbit. Lossless WMA is not supported by any player (yet?).

There's no word on Ogg Vorbis support, let alone MPC support. c't only had an alpha firmware version for the Thomson Lyra PDP2800, which enabled MP3pro playback.


Quote
2.) Has anyone reviewed the sound of these units using high end earphones (Grados, Etymotics) or even with a headphone amp?


Yes, this has been done in this test. There were also several frequency response graphs, which i didn't post for obvious reasons. Tests were conducted with a load of 30 Ohm at 0.25 V eff, at an Audioanalyzer UPL (Rhode & Schwarz). Headphone frequency response was tested with an artificial head (Head & Torso Simulator 4128 by Brüel & Kjaer). Listening tests were performed with the included headphones and Koss PortaPro's.