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Topic: Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting? (Read 5589 times) previous topic - next topic
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Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

I am trying out the OGG encoder in CDex..the highest 'quality' is 10.00 as you know,wich shows it at 500 kbps. I am not concerned with hard drive space..so I am wondering what some of your opinions are about encoding files at the highest quality level...is it worth the extra hard drive space? I am going to try some 'blind' tests in the next few days..but i would like some other peoples opinions.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #1 –
If hard drive space is not a factor then you should consider using lossless compression.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #2 –
Hard drive space is not an issue with me with compressed files...lossless files are simply too big for me. My Miles Davis box set would use around 3 gigs with a lossless like Monkey's..I do have to compress them..but i dont mind using the highest setting and extra hard drive space if it gives me a better result...wich brings me back to my original question. Do any of you feel you get better fidelity at the highest setting? I know there are many variables to sound quality with compressed files,but I always though the less you compress the less you lose.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #3 –
At the current level of ogg vorbis development, probably not.
Firstly, Xiph.org's vorbis encoder is still not tuned for high bitrates yet, although Garf has created his own vorbis GT3b1 encoder for that purpose. It is available at RareWares.

Secondly, above a certain 'medium' setting, most people will no longer hear any difference with extra bitrate i.e that particular setting has reached perceptual transparency for them. Of course, this lack of difference should always be confirmed with an ABX test.

Even if you possess lots of HD space, there really is no need to encode at the highest settings. I think for Vorbis, most people doing wanting to encode at high bitrates are comfortable with -q5 (using GT3b1!), although there seems to be this thing about lossless stereo imaging only at minimum -q6, though you may not hear a difference even using ABX.

Usually, encoding audio files at the highest few settings only means that you'd be able to transpose them later (for use on an mp3 portable, eg) without much apparent degradation.

Hope I have been a bit of help.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #4 –
Quote
Hard drive space is not an issue with me with compressed files...lossless files are simply too big for me.

Looks like a nice contradiction to me...  So we can conclude that hard drive space is an issue after all?

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #5 –
There is no contradiction here. Hard drive space IS NOT an issue with me in the context of compressed files,wich is what this forum is all about...nice try though

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #6 –
Someone must be very bored to nit-pick.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #7 –
Quote
Hard drive space IS NOT an issue with me in the context of compressed files,wich (sic) is what this forum is all about...

Lossless files are compressed files too.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #8 –
IHMO there is indeed a contradiction; lossless files *are* compressed files. Losslessly compressed.

But seriously, I don't think -q10 oggs are worth it. You'd be better off using lossless, or some other codec at lower bitrates for higher quality.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #9 –
Quote
There is no contradiction here. Hard drive space IS NOT an issue with me in the context of compressed files,wich is what this forum is all about...nice try though

Then you should forget about Vorbis and use a fast lossless compressor. How about FLAC?

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #10 –
I guess I need to be precise..hard drive space is not an issue with me with MP3's and OGG files... is that better for you?

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #11 –
I will have to check out flac..is it like Monkey's? .i just didnt want to use an entire gig for two cd's. When i said hard drive space wasnt an issue with me,it was in the context off OGG at its highest setting..i just wondered if you get a better result at its highest level.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #12 –
Is there some kind of satisfaction you get for trying to point out a contradictory statement? I dont get it. You keep quoting me in those little boxes. I guess you have to get your kicks anyway you can over the net....  enjoy. 

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #13 –
Most people here agree, that Vorbis doesn't scale well above a quality level of 6 or 7. Anything above will most likely still fail on the problem cases while wasting lots of bits. If you really want to try high bitrate Vorbis, my suggestion would be to test Garf's GT2 encoder at its 350kbps setting.

dev0
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #14 –
Quote
I will have to check out flac..is it like Monkey's? .i just didnt want to use an entire gig for two cd's. When i said hard drive space wasnt an issue with me,it was in the context off OGG at its highest setting..i just wondered if you get a better result at its highest level.

Yes FLAC is a lossless compressor like Monkey's Audio.

Now, it seems like you already decided how you want to compress your music and only want the blessing of others to feel good about it. Vorbis at highest bitrate around 500 kbps will have less quantization noise than one at half the bitrate. Will anyone be able to hear the difference? In some very rare cases it's possible, but most of the time no. Will such a high bitrate guarantee that no artifacts occur? No, it will not - only lossless compression can do that.


My conclusion: a bitrate that high will provide you with theoretically better quality due to less quatization noise over all, but it will not be better in practice.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #15 –
Quote
Is there some kind of satisfaction you get for trying to point out a contradictory statement? I dont get it. You keep quoting me in those little boxes. I guess you have to get your kicks anyway you can over the net....  enjoy. 

I quote you for the sake of clarity - so that you know the context of my replies. What's wrong with that?

My point from the beginning was to try and show you that you're question was meaningless unless you provided more information about what your goal is. And I'm still not sure I understand what you really want to know... Have you gotten the answers you wanted?

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #16 –
IloveJazzandNewOrleans: Why do u insist on using an encoder not
optimised for high bitrates? MPC, MP3 and AAC all beat ogg at 160+ kbps.
Wanna buy a monkey?

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #17 –
Lol. Another newbie who came, saw, but couldn't conquer. Conquer both his misconceptions, and us. Sigh.

Well the point has already been stated. At high bitrates, nothing but mpc. If for the sake of future compatibility or zealotry you'd prefer vorbis, then use -q5. That is enough for your listening needs. Use -q6 for that unhearable lossless stereo imaging and -q7 for that warm fuzzy feeling. Anything above, use lossless.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #18 –
Why do people insist preserving perfectly the sometimes garbage from the CDs? Take into account the loss from the microphone which recorded the original sound.  The sound of the CD is far from it. Therefore the "standard" settings perfectly makes sense. But if someone is planning to change encoder time to time and reencode, keep a copy of the original CD data around.

P.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #19 –
wow!!!..    you people must think you are the digital audio gods or something.....I think some of you need to put your egos in check and calm down. Especially you sld...stick your inflated chest back in my friend. You  remind me of one of those Star Trek nerds.  and i tried to 'conquer'?  really? conquer what?  To even think i tried to conquer something over the net is foolishness and tells me what i need to know about you.  My question was simple i thought... I asked a very simple question. The thrust of it of the question was to find out what was the best setting for OGG  that yielded the best sound quality... that's all. You finally gave me your opinion on that specific point and i thank you for that. you say -q 6....ok...great...I wasnt trying to win some type of forum 'prize' ...I wasnt trying to get peoples blessings about anything really. i really didnt know if there was a difference with the quality settings and the results you get. How terrible of me.  my question started off as being genuine that degraded to some people trying to feed their egos.  and some of you people were a bit overzealous and jumped down my throat like a bunch of nerds trying to prove that i  was wrong about something that was trivial and away from the thrust of my question.. ..It must be some type of self serving ego trip or something.. I forgot that lossless encoders compressed. ok?! .so i contradicted myself about hard drive space. .SO THE F*CK WHAT!!!! i was not intentional and i think you know that... . should I recieve 10 lashes for this? I dont spend my life on the computer like you folks... You use newbie as some type of insult.I am proud to be a 'newbie'. ..and if you assumed i was a newbie,then why all of the effort to prove i contradicted myself with the 'quoting' jazz and so on?  I think you would have a little more patience in trying to explain this.. and why  'lol' sld? was someone tickling you while you typed? if this is funny to you,that is quite sad for you ..you need a --->life.  I will not be reading your responses...so have a bad day.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #20 –
[original flame removed]

Oops, I fell for it. I forgot the most basic rule: don't feed the trolls.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #21 –
Good grief. This is getting out of control. There is at least one of these newbie experts everyday now it seems.

Arrrgghhhhhhhh!!!!

Edit: Use the search function.
flac > schiit modi > schiit magni > hd650

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #22 –
@IloveJazzandNewOrleans:  Using the Quote feature is not meant to be taken as an insult, it is simply there so that yourself and others reading this post will know what one's reply would be in refference to.  Drop the hostility, without some of these "Star Trek nerds" you wouldn't have the luxury of coming to a forum such as this to pose a question regarding a topic that you obviously know others know more about than yourself.

Someone please close this thread.

Does anyone use OGG at it's highest setting?

Reply #23 –
Quote
IloveJazzandNewOrleans: Why do u insist on using an encoder not
optimised for high bitrates? MPC, MP3 and AAC all beat ogg at 160+ kbps.

MP3 beats Vorbis at 160+ kbps..? That is rather bold statement..

Thread closed..
Juha Laaksonheimo