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Topic: alt-presets and presets (Read 5203 times) previous topic - next topic
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alt-presets and presets

I moved all the alt-presets vbr and abr into libmp3lame. It means that now those presets are part of the lame core, and they will be able to always be in synch between every lame-based application (either using the exe, dll or static library). (I didn't fully switched the dll yet, but it will be easy to do now) Html doc will also follow soon.

Now, the question is about the command-line version. Those presets are called alt-presets, but now they are not "alternative" anymore. I'd like to have comments about moving them to --presets or no and things like that. Do you think we sould keep them as "alternate" only?

alt-presets and presets

Reply #1 –
The only problem with changing them from --alt-preset is that things like CDex and winLAME have only just integrated them by the current name. If you change the name again now, I think it may cause more confusion than benefit. Personally, I really don't mind either way, but having just got all these apps synchronised it seems a pity to risk them getting out of sync again!

john33;)

alt-presets and presets

Reply #2 –
Yes, the common name should remain as an alias.

My suggestion: some plain switches like mpc has:
Code: [Select]
--standard
Code: [Select]
--extreme
Code: [Select]
--insane
and
Code: [Select]
--preset abr / cbr x
for average / constant bitrate presets

alt-presets and presets

Reply #3 –
Argh...  I had a really good post written while I was at work, then Mozilla ate it.  Then I get home and my cable modem was "locked up".  Now I'm back online, and I've had time to think.  Here's my results...  I ended up with three possible routes for the presets to go.

1. Don't change anything.  Other developers are just starting to catch up to the --alt-presets.

2. Drastic changes.  Take out all the old code, and make -b, --abr, and --preset X point to --alt-preset cbr, --alt-preset abr, and --alt-preset X, respectively.  Or maybe push the old code down to siwtches like --abr-old and --cbr-old.

3. Moderate changes.  Bring in new top-level switches --alt-cbr and --alt-abr (I prefer these to --xxx-new because of the consistency with --alt-preset).  The old --preset would stay the same, and --alt-preset would only gain new tuned switches (like medium).

Personally, I like #3.

Some other notes:

In any event, the current set of switches should be maintained for a while, so that other developers don't have to keep releasing patches or updates to track the latest version of lame.

It would be nice to see a --cbr switch that did the same thing as -b, but only for consistency's sake.  This would be especially useful is a --alt-cbr was introduced.  Anyone?    On the same token, introducing a --vbr switch (analogous to -V) would be pretty cool too.  I'm not really sure what --alt-vbr would do though, which would be a sticking point.  (Could it map to --alt-preset standard -V X?  Would that even work?)  Maybe it could be listed as reserved for future development.

I'm rambling now...  But what does everyone think?

alt-presets and presets

Reply #4 –
I'm glad that Lame now has the --alt-presets as defaults; it means that whenever a novice user encodes a "128k mp3," the file's parameters will be properly tuned with the appropriate lowpass, samplerate, and whatever else is encapsulated by the --alt-presets. If/when Dibrom tunes the abr and cbr presets to take advantage of the standard/extreme/insane tunings, this will make an even bigger difference.

I'm curious how alt-preset standard and extreme are now triggered, though. Are they -V2 and -V1? Of course they will still be accessible via the --alt-preset switch, I assume.

alt-presets and presets

Reply #5 –
I'll get to giving my opinion on this matter shortly, but for the meantime I'll answer this quick question:

Quote
Originally posted by SometimesWarrior
I'm curious how alt-preset standard and extreme are now triggered, though. Are they -V2 and -V1? Of course they will still be accessible via the --alt-preset switch, I assume.


They aren't related to the -V switches at all actually.  The way it works is that depending on which --alt-preset is used, there are about 6 or 7 internal variables I created that get set which modify various parts of the psymodel.  Of course, you could actually modify the frontend to trigger different presets/etc according to the V setting though... which actually would make more sense than the way it works right now.

alt-presets and presets

Reply #6 –
Clarification:
alt-presets are not selected by default. You still have to use a command-line switch.

I don't plan neither to remove the alt-preset switch, I was just asking about weither to put the alt-presets into --presets or no.

I don't want to enable them by default right now. It might sound strange but I think it's too early for this. However I'd like such a thing for v4.x.

However I'd like to really push the use of presets into the docs.

So what about setting --preset as a --alt-preset alias? (I'm sorry but I think we'll also have to maintain the old presets, at least for a few time. But no documentation for those)

Side note:
"--alt-preset cbr 160" is doing the same as "--alt-preset 160 --cbr" as the --cbr option enforces the use of cbr

alt-presets and presets

Reply #7 –
Quote
Originally posted by Gabriel
I don't plan neither to remove the alt-preset switch, I was just asking about weither to put the alt-presets into --presets or no.


I don't know how the current --presets really work, but I was under the impression that they were "just a collection of switches".  To have the --alt-presets promoted into that framework would be a little weird, because they trigger such different code.

Quote
I don't want to enable them by default right now. It might sound strange but I think it's too early for this. However I'd like such a thing for v4.x.


I agree here.  Once the --alt-presets have been tuned to work (well) across a wide range of bitrates, then promoting them to be the defaults would be good.

Quote
So what about setting --preset as a --alt-preset alias? (I'm sorry but I think we'll also have to maintain the old presets, at least for a few time. But no documentation for those)


My vote goes towards keeping them as --alts for the time being.  Perheps when they become defaults then we could remove their "alt-ness". 

Quote
Side note: 
"--alt-preset cbr 160" is doing the same as "--alt-preset 160 --cbr" as the --cbr option enforces the use of cbr


Is that how things currently work?  I didn't know that there was a --cbr switch.  If my command line is just "--cbr 160", is that the same as specifying "-b 160"?  That's what I was suggesting earlier.

alt-presets and presets

Reply #8 –
Quote
Originally posted by Gabriel
So what about setting --preset as a --alt-preset alias?

I say please do it. Calling them alt suggest they are an alternative for something else that is preferred. Removing alt suggest these presets are the prefered ones.
(I give my support to that for what it's worth  )
Quote
(I'm sorry but I think we'll also have to maintain the old presets, at least for a few time. But no documentation for those)

You mean it would be --preset [phone|voice|tape|fm|standard|cd|extreme ..etc.] ?
Not nice at all, but when the old ones never show up it would be acceptable.
--
Ge Someone
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

alt-presets and presets

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by Gabriel
Now, the question is about the command-line version. Those presets are called alt-presets, but now they are not "alternative" anymore. I'd like to have comments about moving them to --presets or no and things like that. Do you think we sould keep them as "alternate" only?


I think this is a good question to start a poll
Rommel

alt-presets and presets

Reply #10 –
I've got it...you can call then R3MIX!!