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Topic: Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion (Read 54916 times) previous topic - next topic
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Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #225 –
Quote
P.S.: Is anyone gonna submit a test announcement to slashdot, arstechnica or similiar sites?

I'm going to submit a test announcement to some French "famous" forum the way I submitted some of the previous tests.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #226 –
Quote
The downside is that Reference, WMA and Atrac3 would already have to be distributed in FLAC. That would probably bring package sizes to about 10Mb :/

Ideas?

hm i dunno how to set this up myself, but maybe the spreading of the packages via BT could help?
I know, that I know nothing (Socrates)

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #227 –
Quote
hm i dunno how to set this up myself, but maybe the spreading of the packages via BT could help?

This sounds like a good idea to me. But I dont know how many people have Bit Torrent.

I just want to find a legal use for P2P 

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #228 –
Quote
This sounds like a good idea to me. But I dont know how many people have Bit Torrent.


Bit Torrent is easy enough to set up but is the problem here hosting the files or just how much people will have to download, bit torrent doesn't make the download any smaller.

If hosting is a problem I may be able to host some of the samples.
I can't host many because I have a monthly cap on webspace bandwidth.

Luke

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #229 –
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Together with all the pre-tests and discussion, I'm pretty sure this will be one of the most interesting (and probably most controversial...) tests ever.

Oh, for sure. Criticism will pour in.

Quote
Good luck.


Thank-you

Quote
hm i dunno how to set this up myself, but maybe the spreading of the packages via BT could help?


Ah, thanks for reminding me. I wanted to ask this.

I would like to set up a BT tracker on RareWares, to help spread packages through other means than http. Could some one guide me into how to do that, considering it's Linux (RedHat) and I have no root access?

Quote
If hosting is a problem I may be able to host some of the samples.
I can't host many because I have a monthly cap on webspace bandwidth.


Well, RareWares has 150Gb cap. RW itself uses about 50Gb/month. That leaves us with 100Gb, which should be enough. But just to be safe, I would like to set up BT. Even if it help save 10% of the bandwidth, it would already be of much help.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #230 –
There seems to be a free tracker at this link.

http://dehacked.2y.net:6969/

Edit:  fixing linkage

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #231 –
Ok nice to see all OK for you Rjamorim... I'll participate to this test thanks to Nyarla who submited the announcement on the "world well-known board"...
Regards

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #232 –
Quote
There seems to be a free tracker at this link.

http://dehacked.2y.net:6969/

Edit:  fixing linkage

Very interesting. But still, I gotta admin all I know about BitTorrent is downloading .torrent files and throwing them at TorrentStorm. I don't know how to create .torrent files, how to set up and configure the php tracker...

Can someone point me to links to guides or something?

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #233 –
SonicStage is stupid and retarded, and refuses to encode my samples.

http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/screen1.png

(these are standard WAVs! It plays back those tracks without any problem, but refuses to convert to Atrac3)

If I don't find a way to fix this issue until later tonight, Atrac3 is out.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #234 –
Quote
SonicStage is stupid and retarded, and refuses to encode my samples.

http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/screen1.png

(these are standard WAVs! It plays back those tracks without any problem, but refuses to convert to Atrac3)

If I don't find a way to fix this issue until later tonight, Atrac3 is out.

OK. I'll try to provide samples. (encode to ATRAC > Burn into AudioCD > Rip to wav)

Edit: Somehow exact same error happens here. I probably need to reinstall the program or something.
screenshot

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #235 –
Quote
SonicStage is stupid and retarded, and refuses to encode my samples.

http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/screen1.png

(these are standard WAVs! It plays back those tracks without any problem, but refuses to convert to Atrac3)

If I don't find a way to fix this issue until later tonight, Atrac3 is out.

Have you tried opening them with some program (Adobe Audition, for instance) and re-saving them (without modifications, of course)? "Converting" those WAVs to WAV with foobar2k could be another way of "re-saving" them that might work.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #236 –
Quote
Have you tried opening them with some program (Adobe Audition, for instance) and re-saving them (without modifications, of course)? "Converting" those WAVs to WAV with foobar2k could be another way of "re-saving" them that might work.

Yes. Doesn't work.

It must be a bug in SonicStage. It can open the file without problems to play back, so why is it bitching about not being able to open it to encode?

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #237 –
Quote
,May 4 2004, 06:03 PM] The problem is only for oggenc that uses a different separator.

Both Aoyumi and myself have compiled an oggenc that uses only a .  (dot) as the separator. 

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #238 –
Quote
OK. I'll try to provide samples. (encode to ATRAC > Burn into AudioCD > Rip to wav)

Edit: Somehow exact same error happens here. I probably need to reinstall the program or something.
screenshot

Thank-you. I uninstalled, restarted windows, installed, restarted windows, and now it works

So, no worries about providing the samples anymore.

Instead of burning to CD, I captured the played audio with total recorder. Hopefully that won't introduce artifacts or other weirdness.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #239 –
The ill-famed bitrate deviation table. Bitrates were obtained with foobar, except for the Atrac3 bitrates, that were obtained with ff123's python bitrate calculator.

http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/Bitrates.txt

iTunes, WMA Std and Atrac3 are very well-behaved. Lame and Vorbis deviate a little too much, but they are still less than 10kbps far from the target bitrate. MPC continues making my life miserable.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #240 –
Quote
Very interesting. But still, I gotta admin all I know about BitTorrent is downloading .torrent files and throwing them at TorrentStorm. I don't know how to create .torrent files, how to set up and configure the php tracker...

Can someone point me to links to guides or something?

So? Anybody willing to help?

I just calculated, and the entire sample set will end up in 165Mb (!)

So, yes, I will definitely need some sort of p2p.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #241 –
For basic information about creating torrents and setting up a tracker read Brian Dessent's excellent BT-FAQ.

CompleteDir is the 'official' tool for creating *.torrent files, but many clients and tools like TorrentSpy have that capability too nowadays. I'd still use CompleteDir to be safe, since it's the reference and really easy to use.

I could offer you to use my personal tracker, but it's hosted on a 128kbps upstream ADSL connection and I won't guarantee 100% uptime.

I've also prepared a py2ex-ified version of bttrack.py, which you (or someone else) could use to run a tracker under Win32:
http://dev0.rc55.com/bttrack-win32/bttrack...cvs20040405.zip

There is a PHP tracker implementation, which could work on a server without root access, but I've never used it.
"To understand me, you'll have to swallow a world." Or maybe your words.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #242 –
Thank-you very much, dev0

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #243 –
Would just like to inform a last-minute change:

In an attempt to bring the bitrates down a little, ff123 found a sample that I used to replace velvet.

The sample is called ItCouldBeSweet
http://www.rarewares.org/samples/ItCouldBeSweet.flac

And the new bitrate table looks like this:
http://pessoal.onda.com.br/rjamorim/Bitrates.txt

Now the average bitrates are deviating at most +8 from the target bitrate. Much better than +13, as it was before.

Regards;

Roberto.
 

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #244 –
Here are links to the samples in the test.  I've placed some of them on my site.

Bartok_strings2
BigYellow
chanchan
DaFunk
Debussy
getiton
gone
Hongroise
ItCouldBeSweet
kraftwerk
Leahy
Mahler
NewYorkCity
OrdinaryWorld
rosemary
SinceAlways
trust
Waiting

ff123

Edit:  Thanks.  I transferred Debussy and SinceAlways to my site, as well as kraftwerk, which I converted to flac.

For some reason, I forgot to include Bartok_strings2.  Thanks, all.

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #246 –
Debussy.flac
SinceAlways.flac

Can't hold them there for long,though. For some reason I couldn't make upload to HA (have to investigate what's wrong at my end).

rgds,
halcyon

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #248 –
Checked the bitrates using

python bitrate calculator

for the individual samples.  The averages at the bottom were calculated by entering the numbers into excel and averaging (instead of using the bitrate calculator).  This weights each sample equally instead of giving more weight to longer samples and less weight to shorter samples.

Code: [Select]
                         MPC     Vorbis  Lame
Bartok_strings2         153     147     146
BigYellow               148     144     136
chanchan                148     146     144
DaFunk                  135     124     143
Debussy                  98     119     109
getiton                 128     126     129
gone                    132     133     132
Hongroise               104     127     117
ItCouldBeSweet           92     110      94
kraftwerk               152     133     141
Leahy                   155     148     134
Mahler                  146     133     145
NewYorkCity             144     136     132
OrdinaryWorld           153     145     143
rosemary                135     135     130
SinceAlways             146     123     153
trust                   144     152     146
Waiting                 153     143     148
----------------------------------------------
Averages                137     135     135


I think the above average bitrates are still too high for a "128" test, lending ammunition to critics who would say that "of course the highest bitrate codecs would rate better."

Here are the averages for each sample (averaging over mp3, mpc, and vorbis), from lowest to highest:

Code: [Select]
                  averages
ItCouldBeSweet      98.7
Debussy            108.7
Hongroise          116.0
getiton            127.7
gone               132.3
rosemary           133.3
DaFunk             134.0
NewYorkCity        137.3
SinceAlways        140.7
Mahler             141.3
kraftwerk          142.0
BigYellow          142.7
Leahy              145.7
chanchan           146.0
OrdinaryWorld      147.0
trust              147.3
Waiting            148.0
Bartok_strings2    148.7


If samples are to be replaced, it would be more efficient to replace from the bottom (highest average bitrate first.

ff123

Multiformat @ 128kbps - test discussion

Reply #249 –
Quote
If samples are to be replaced, it would be more efficient to replace from the bottom (highest average bitrate first.

If Bartok_strings2 should be replaced with other sample for that reason, I can submit Shostakovich instead. (I prefer Bartok.)