CMC Magnetics

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Reply #25 – 2004-09-15 04:03:24

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The only read errors I've ever encountered were with Prodiscs (Fugi). I had a 50 spindle of which three discs in a row had read errors. I burned the same image with a CMC, and no read error...I think it's "to-each-his-own" with cd burning quality.
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I have also had problems with the Fuji Prodiscs with my 52327s. These are supposed to be fairly good blanks from what I've read over at cdreaks. I attribute it to with the burner or firmware.

I can confirm that regular Verbatims have been using CMC. I bought 2 50 packs about a month ago that were both CMC.

I have always liked the Ford analogy when talking about CMC. Ford is the worlds largest car manufacturer. Some fords are great while others literally fall apart. For instance, I had a 95 Contour which generally thought of as a big bag of suck. Mine was great though. I bought the car in AZ so it was made in Ford's Kansas City plant which is generally known to be of higher quality than their other plants. I think the same goes for CMC. Most of the CMC's that I get are branded as Memorex. I buy them just to burn audio cd's for the car. They generally seem to do fine. I end up with less errors on the CMC's than on the aformentioned Prodiscs.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #26 – 2004-09-19 11:10:59

this is the first time i buy "That's CDR"
Its Taiyo Yuden, the first time I saw Taiyo Yuden in my hometwon
They are not easy to find
........USD 0.16 per/pc, too cheap to be true
they are cheaper than crappy lead data, plasmon, fornet, sony
man, the dye looked like Mitsubishi superazo

are they really taiyo yuden?
i thought their dye should be green in color!

CMC Magnetics

Reply #27 – 2004-09-19 12:57:25

The TY dye can be easily confused with the MCC Super Azo dye ... you can identify TY's by the "icy" inner plastic ring with the (mostly) engraved serial number.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #28 – 2004-09-19 13:30:46

ya, its inner ring is icy!
the brand is "That's CDR"
model = CDR-80TY

its an unrated CDR, no speed rating at all
so what is the speed to choose for recording
although my writer can support it up to 32X
but i don't trust "justspeed", "justspeed" also allowed me to burn Verbatim Digital Vinyl CDR at 40X, i tried 16X but it turn out to be a coaster too!

CMC Magnetics

Reply #29 – 2004-09-19 13:34:45

I get the best results (in terms of lowest possible C1 rates) at the highest possible CLV speed ... for my Plextor Premium, this is 20x ...

Remember to look out for your burner's latest firmware ... ;-)

CMC Magnetics

Reply #30 – 2004-09-19 13:37:31

@ kotrtim: Every burner behaves differently. I'm afraid you will have to try a few speeds to be sure.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #31 – 2004-09-19 15:21:51

Interestingly, I burned a bunch of CMC Magnetics discs back in 2000 (Imation brand) on a long since defunct Philips PCRW804 8x4x32, and none of them have gone bad on me so far. That being said, I didn't know about the differences in media back then, so I'm more careful about what I purchase now.

As an aside, the only media that I have had problems with were some old generic "PC-UP" 74 minute discs (azo) that showed thousands of errors right after burning in 2001 and are unplayable at different points in the disc. Everything else, from Imation to Memorex to Fujifilm, has held up fine.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #32 – 2004-09-20 08:26:30

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@ kotrtim: Every burner behaves differently. I'm afraid you will have to try a few speeds to be sure.
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but my writer doesn't support C1!
what's the manufacturer's rating?
normally CDR came with the rated speed printed on the surface
but "that's CDR" do not have the rated speed!

[a href="http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/taiyo_yuden.shtml]http://www.cdmediaworld.com/hardware/cdrom/taiyo_yuden.shtml[/url]

Taiyo Yuden That's CDR-80TY
i found it. similar to the one i bought
its stated 1~16X
is it correct, this website looks old to me!

CMC Magnetics

Reply #33 – 2004-09-20 18:06:34

Modern TY's (like the ones sold under the brand of Plextor) are rated for 48x and can be written at 52x in most devices.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #34 – 2004-09-20 18:43:29

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That is a sad development for TDK.

http://club.cdfreaks.com/lite/t-55487
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it's not a new development really. i remember well over 2 years ago i first saw CMC TDKs. even before that, like '98 or '99 TDK were beginning to be shit, at least the ones that were made by TDK.

as for CMC, i made my brother a CD once, like 3 years ago. he bought it at some dollar store and there is no brand on it. several months ago i tested it because he said it keeps skipping like shit in the CD player. nero CDspeed identified it as a CMC magnetics disc. it's practically unreadable today. you can't grab most of the tracks off it without heavy duty error correction. it has VERY minor scratches, nothing that should cause these kind of problems.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #35 – 2004-09-21 03:30:34

A couple of months ago i had to choose between: 1) Unbranded / Unknown, for about 0.2 US$, and TDK / CMC for around 0.3 US$. I took the "TDK"s, but most people get the cheaper ones.

Code: [Select]

ATIP:              97m 26s 66f
Disc Manufacturer: CMC Magnetics Corp.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type:        CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  702.82MB (79m 59s 71f / LBA: 359846)

I already knew they were most probably CMC, its been so long since i last seen Taiyo Yuden... Burned a few of those in the past, and did not see any c2 errors with cdspeed. Ah well, i just have 98 more of these

Before that, i got those Benq

Code: [Select]

ATIP:              97m 25s 29f
Disc Manufacturer: Hitachi Maxell, Ltd.
Reflective layer:  Dye (Short strategy; e.g. Phthalocyanine)
Media type:        CD-Recordable
Recording Speeds:  min. unknown - max. unknown
nominal Capacity:  702.83MB (79m 59s 74f / LBA: 359849)

They are all readable but, some had like less than 300 c2 errors at most, right after burning (at 4x, no power calibration old school panasonic drive made for original taiyo yuden media).

CD media is already too expensive (even these cheapies) in comparison with dvd-r media. Same place currently sells unbranded / unknown for 0.4$ and ritek / unknown (still dont own a dvd-r drive) for 0.6$.

You can fit 6+ cds per dvd. And that is without double layers... What i wonder is about the reliability.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #36 – 2004-09-21 07:56:27

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Current Verbatim Datalife plus are also made by CMC (except for ones that are made in Singapore), but with Mitsubishi's dye formulation and "quality control.
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This is the first time I see this claim. Source, please!

CMC Magnetics

Reply #37 – 2004-09-21 08:17:15

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Malaysia, (just beside Singapore in case you don't know)
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I do. I understand the sun radiation is so bad there that ocular problems are very common. Makes your results all the more impressive, I guess. Phtalocyanine is known to resist UV radiation much better than cyanine, though.

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Imation is quite expensive (USD 0.39)
Verbatim DLP superazo is even more expensive(USD 0.66)

the cheapest CMC unbranded I can get here is around
(USD 0.13), they are CRAP.....useless junk!

I never see any Taiyo Yuden here, but Mitsui is avilable here for (USD 2.11) per pc
oh god! that's too expensive
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I can get [a href="http://www.maxellus.com/content/pages/Page.asp?Section=Products&Department=datamedia&Line=optical&Product=cdrpro] Maxell CD-R Pro[/url] (TY) in 25pc cakeboxes at .66/pc and that is still expensive IMO. Then again, I bought some media for $3 a piece in the past, hehe. But that was for the community's sake, so to speak ...

As for C2s, I don't keep any CD-R that has them and you shouldn't either.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #38 – 2004-09-21 08:35:36

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Could you provide proof that TDK and Verbatim relabel CMC magnetics.
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See the [a href="http://club.cdfreaks.com/showthread.php?t=75424]CMC thread[/url] at CDFreaks' media archive. Posts 10, 13, 31, 37-39 are TDK; 22 and 35 are Verbatim.

Not sure why you find the fact that TDK rebadges RiTek media sad. RiTek's rep is a lot better than that of CMC.

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Modern TY's (like the ones sold under the brand of Plextor) are rated for 48x and can be written at 52x in most devices.
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I can confirm the above. In fact, TY is the only media my Premium and PX-712A can burn at 52X without C2 errors (though I use 16X for the best C1/speed tradeoff :)

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although my writer can support it up to 32X but i don't trust "justspeed", "justspeed" also allowed me to burn Verbatim Digital Vinyl CDR at 40X, i tried 16X but it turn out to be a coaster too!
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This doesn't sound right. I didn't have success burning the Digital Vinyl CD-Rs at 40X either, but they were fine at 16X (no C2s). Must be a burner/firmware issue.
Btw, congratulations on your find! That's discs are supposed to be very expensive because they are the official Taiyo Yuden branded media. Everything else they produce is either sold as unbranded OEM spindles or goes to third parties for rebadging, though there should not be significant difference in quality.

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As an aside, the only media that I have had problems with were some old generic "PC-UP" 74 minute discs (azo) that showed thousands of errors right after burning in 2001 and are unplayable at different points in the disc.
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Could you post the ATIP? Chances are that is CMC.
=)

<edit> merged several replies to reduce clutter

CMC Magnetics

Reply #39 – 2004-09-21 08:37:41

dont believe ive used cmc's before...

although the fujifilm (taiyo yuden) discs i use are quite reliable

CMC Magnetics

Reply #40 – 2004-09-23 20:44:35

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CMC Magnetics blank CD-R's are everywhere. I have bough them under Imation, HP, TDK, GQ (Fry's) and no-name varieties. Walk into a store, and it is hard to find anything else. The reason there is so much said about CMC CD-R's is that there are a lot more of them around than anything else. I have burned bunches of them with few problems. When there are problems, it is due to scratches from handling.
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Quite likely, you are correct.. BTW, I recently bought a 25-disc spindle of 80 min. CD-Rs with the Philips brand, rated at 48x. They are identified as -- you guessed it -- CMC. I've only burned a few thus far, but my results from scans using different drives and either Kprobe or Plextools showed less than 200 C1 errors *total* for the discs. Although, longevity is the critical factor for media quality; discs with immediate errors can easily be reburned.

The real problem is consistency. Quality varies tremendously according to most of the comments I have seen about CMC, and discs manufactured by CMC two or three years ago might not say anything about the batch you buy today. They might be good; they might be crap. The longevity of the media you burn is anyone's guess. Consistency is important, which is why I only use Mitsui or TY for archival purposes. I figure, why tempt fate? But for burning some Linux installation ISO images downloaded from the Internet, it doesn't really matter what you use, so long as its readable in the immediate term.

Dave

CMC Magnetics

Reply #41 – 2004-09-23 23:07:27

I've got 6 Imation CD-R's that were manufactured by CMC in various countries and so far none of them are unreadable. One is from 1998 and I have no ideal were it was manufactured, the other 5 were manufactured in India, and of course none of them display full information via burnatonce Tools->Device Info->Media.

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Modern TY's (like the ones sold under the brand of Plextor) are rated for 48x and can be written at 52x in most devices.
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Those sold as Memorex that are manufatured by Taiyo Yuden are rated at 48x, however burnatonce states they are 32x. Nonetheless burning faster than 32x and 48x didn't cause me any problems, I didn't have one coaster out of the 50 discs I bought.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #42 – 2004-09-24 14:45:09

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I've only burned a few thus far, but my results from scans using different drives and either Kprobe or Plextools showed less than 200 C1 errors *total* for the discs
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Did you burn the whole disc? At what speed? Post some scans to the CMC thread I referred to in my previous post, please. 200 C1 sounds possible with KProbe, but I have yet to see a PTP scan like that.

CMC Magnetics

Reply #43 – 2004-09-26 16:38:02

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Quote
Current Verbatim Datalife plus are also made by CMC (except for ones that are made in Singapore), but with Mitsubishi's dye formulation and "quality control.
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This is the first time I see this claim. Source, please!
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I recently bought a 50 pcs. spindle of Verbatim SuperAzo Crystal (with blue MCC cyanine dye) and guess what they smell like ?

Absolutely ... ATIP says: Mitsubishi - my nose says: CMC

I did not encounter any problems thus far besides from an (uncritical) rise of BLER at the end of the disc - I did write at 16x and 20x in both, Premium and 712A

CMC Magnetics

Reply #44 – 2004-09-26 20:37:21

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Quote
I've only burned a few thus far, but my results from scans using different drives and either Kprobe or Plextools showed less than 200 C1 errors *total* for the discs
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Did you burn the whole disc? At what speed? Post some scans to the CMC thread I referred to in my previous post, please. 200 C1 sounds possible with KProbe, but I have yet to see a PTP scan like that.
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Yes, I burned the whole disc. It was a Knoppix ISO image just under 700 MB. I burned two copies, one at 8x, and a second at 16x with a Plextor W4824A. I was actually wrong about there being less than 200 C1 errors; there were a total of 285 and 378 C1 errors, respectively. CD-Speed reported 403 C1 errors total on the second burn, which is very close to what K-Probe reported. I didn't save the results from the PTP scans, unfortunately, because I didn't anticipate discussing the results.

I don't typically burn at speeds above 16x, and usually use 8x for audio because I seldom have a pressing need for urgency.

Dave

CMC Magnetics

Reply #45 – 2004-09-27 15:44:56

I managed to borrow a Aopen DVD drive that is
capable in retrieving C1

These is the scan for a few brands and manufacturer

Imation's CMC is one of the best recorded disc
C1 = 0.09 pretty close to TY (0.04) and MCC (0.05)
I think this is an impressive result?

Imation Neon CDR burn at 24X
Avg C1 = 0.09
Max C1 = 16
total C1 = 385

Taiyo Yuden That's CDR burn at 8X
Avg = 0.04
Max C1 = 13
total C1 = 202

Verbatim SuperAzo burn at 24X
Avg C1 = 0.05
max C1 = 18
total C1 = 257

NEC (CMC) burn at 24X

EDIT: scan added
Imation Neon CDR (This is the scan for another Imation disc)
SmartBuy (Prodisc)
HiCo (RiTEK)
BenQ (Acer/Daxon)

Scanned 2 Imation disc, the second one is a bit higher in C1, still impressive!

annyway, I've read a few forums and many commented that New high speed drives are not good at low speed, but it seem I have the least C1 error if the speed 8X is selected for Taiyo Yuden and MCC.

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