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Topic: How to convince people to stop MP3 myths (Read 62585 times) previous topic - next topic
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How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

 Has anyone ever had a hard job trying to dispell certain mp3 myths? Like:

1) Joint Stereo messes up the sound.
2) Joint Stereo ruins high frequencies.
3) You can always tell the difference.

etc etc.

I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall trying to talk to these people... 

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #1 –
Oh, I think we're all pretty familiar with your problem. Your best bet is to have a read through the FAQs here, they cover some of the issue's you mention. Also, read up on ABX testing (also covered in a FAQ) and point the naysayers towards that FAQ and ask for ABX results.
daefeatures.co.uk

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #2 –
Don't worry.  I can assure you you're not the only one who has come across the problem of others' ignorance and general not caring about the subjects.  Both this and VBR are touchy subjects people are stubborn about.

You know how I combat this one as well as people saying VBR isn't of high quality?  It's simple.  I ask them "If it destroyed quality then why are both VBR and forms of joint stereo used in lossless codecs?"

About the best you can do really.
Nero AAC 1.5.1.0: -q0.45

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #3 –
Quote
Oh, I think we're all pretty familiar with your problem. Your best bet is to have a read through the FAQs here, they cover some of the issue's you mention. Also, read up on ABX testing (also covered in a FAQ) and point the naysayers towards that FAQ and ask for ABX results.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277196"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


I've seen people say that they don't need to ABX as they can hear the problem! 

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #4 –
Quote
Has anyone ever had a hard job trying to dispell certain mp3 myths? Like:

1) Joint Stereo messes up the sound.
2) Joint Stereo ruins high frequencies.
3) You can always tell the difference.

etc etc.

I feel like I'm bashing my head against a brick wall trying to talk to these people... 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277194"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Easiest way: perform public listening tests & prove your claims. Simple.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #5 –
Still, there's people that will never be convinced.

I have seen people unable to ABX, still think that their files have "something" that they cannot put their finger on.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #6 –
Quote
etc etc.


MP3 are crap

Simplest way: switch to Vorbis

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #7 –
The general situation I have found is "Why encode at higher bitrates when 128kbps is just the same as the original".

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #8 –
I don't even care about trying to dispel these myths. People are happy believing them and encoding their music with them, so let them be.

The only reason I believe there would be for trying to dispel those myths is if you guys were into heavy file sharing...

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #9 –
IMHO, it is now impossible to dispel the JS-myth on a large scale.

The only solution is disabling the switch completely in LAME.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #10 –
Quote
The only reason I believe there would be for trying to dispel those myths is if you guys were into heavy file sharing... :rolleyes:
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277243"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


So, do you think that all non-selfencoded MP3s are illegal? May i remind you about netlabels, artists who give their music or some tracks away for free and taped live-shows?

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #11 –
Quote
The only solution is disabling the switch completely in LAME.[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277262"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

I'll second that

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #12 –
Quote
IMHO, it is now impossible to dispel the JS-myth on a large scale.

The only solution is disabling the switch completely in LAME.

Or to have user interfaces similar to this one:
http://lame.sourceforge.net/lame_ui_example.html

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #13 –
Quote
Quote
IMHO, it is now impossible to dispel the JS-myth on a large scale.

The only solution is disabling the switch completely in LAME.

Or to have user interfaces similar to this one:
http://lame.sourceforge.net/lame_ui_example.html
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277268"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Hmm, isn't this essentially the same? The stereo-option is just hidden in the frontend, making it appear as if lame doesn't have this option - the net result is removing the stereo-switch - but with the difference that the app needs to "support" it. I have reasonable doubt that the majority of the authors of the existing apps will understand that removing an already existing option is an improvement.

- Lyx
I am arrogant and I can afford it because I deliver.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #14 –
particularly, the myths that I more hate are these:

1) 128 CBR kbps mp3 is CD quality 

2) Joint stereo is bad, because destroys all the stereo information. 

3) Simple stereo is the best choice, because preserve all the stereo information. 

4) mp3 never is or will be transparent. 

5) VBR thing is bad, CBR is a lot better. 

6) 192 CBR kbps mp3 in simple stereo mode is the best solution for archival quality. 

7) Fhg is the best mp3 encoder. 

All these myths come from the ignorance. I try to convince to my friends that they are wrong, but; it's impossible 

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #15 –
I just don't bother educating people anymore. I just ignore them. It's too frustrating, and you can't educate everyone. Educating one clueless moron, is like a drop in the sea of morons.

What does bother me however, is that the danish music paysites are using retarded LAME settings to encode their music, and that's really annoying. If they sold --aps MP3 or even just properly encoded 192 CBR MP3, I'd consider using them.

I even tried sending them a mail, and explaining the situation to them, giving helpful links etc., but all I got in return was some standard bullshit reply.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #16 –
Quote
All these myths come from the ignorance. I try to convince to my friends that they are wrong, but; it's impossible crying.gif


Personally if my friends don't listen to what I want I just to tell them to go F off. People are generally dumb, ignorant, and foolish are not going to listen to you anyway no matter what reasonable explanation you have for them they generally don't care.  That's why we have our uber-pretentious community here of course ;-D.  The only thing you can really do is "educate" the uninformed public and hope they listen.
budding I.T professional

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #17 –
I'd just get rid of the stereo switch and re-name joint-stereo to 'stereo' - or map the stereo switch to joint-stereo

Sure, why would we care? Well, since all the other 'modern' codecs already use Joint-Stereo as default and call it 'Stereo' some newbie will actually believe that mondern codecs are far better than mp3...simply because they don't how to encode in mp3...
--alt-presets are there for a reason! These other switches DO NOT work better than it, trust me on this.
LAME + Joint Stereo doesn't destroy 'Stereo'

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #18 –
You cant convince people that something is terrible if they cant notice. So I dont try to dispell myths. If they really want to know information(or truth about audio coding), they probably will search for themselves.
Alguém pare o mundo que eu quero descer!!

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #19 –
Or maybe we should map Joint Stereo as Good Modern Stereo and "normal" stereo as Bad Old Stereo. This way, maybe placebo will help us for once.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #20 –
It is not your obligation to educate anyone until they notice skips from using sync or burst mode, clips and chirps from other corruption, garbly artifacts, etc., and want to get it done right.

Note: this is coming from a previous ToS #8 violator , who originally believed it all...until hundreds (maybe thousands, really) of hours of listeing began to train his brain into having good ears.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #21 –
My opinion is that MP3 encoding washes out the high range. I prefer to encode my signals with ogg vorbis of quality 7 or higher, just to be safe.

As well, I generally avoid playing MP3 files that are less than 256 kbps CBR or 192kbps VBR at high volumes or in a performance situation. I once read that exposure to low quality lossy encodings can cause cumulative hearing loss and tinnitus. While I can not say if that is true, I prefer to err or the side of caution.

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #22 –
Quote
My opinion is that MP3 encoding washes out the high range. I prefer to encode my signals with ogg vorbis of quality 7 or higher, just to be safe.

As well, I generally avoid playing MP3 files that are less than 256 kbps CBR or 192kbps VBR at high volumes or in a performance situation. I once read that exposure to low quality lossy encodings can cause cumulative hearing loss and tinnitus. While I can not say if that is true, I prefer to err or the side of caution.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277443"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Troll?

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #23 –
Quote
I once read that exposure to low quality lossy encodings can cause cumulative hearing loss and tinnitus. While I can not say if that is true, I prefer to err or the side of caution.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277443"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


Don't exist scientific evidence that supports this.. (or at least credible).

This is another new myth that we can add to the list. 

How to convince people to stop MP3 myths

Reply #24 –
Quote
5) VBR thing is bad, CBR is a lot better. 
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=277281"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


This one is actually kinda true.

CBR (320K/-api) is the VERY best LAME has to offer. It is overkill though, and it is not like I can hear a difference (my transparency thresold is about 160k in LAME)

Although you will not catch me dead telling that to my friends or anyone else.
I'm the one in the picture, sitting on a giant cabbage in Mexico, circa 1978.
Reseñas de Rock en Español: www.estadogeneral.com