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Topic: apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1 (Read 8766 times) previous topic - next topic
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apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

i rip cds with lame 3.97b1 and currently, as suggested in lame recommended settings thread, have lame make its own tags.  are these id3v1, v2 or apev2?  what are the differenecs between all these?  advantages, disadvantages?

i use an ipod anf foobar, so i need all the mp3s to be compatible with both.  i will start using replaygain, too, with albumgain settings, so need the tags to work with this, too.

basically, which is best and why?

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #1 –
id3v1 is most compatible with even old hard and software. however it is very limited.

ape is pretty neat, but not very well supported (i highly doubt it is on an ipod but i might be wrong).

id3v2 is the best middle ground...lots of support and useful info.


p.s. in foobar it defaults (or used to) to ape tags. drove me CRAZY for the lognest time until i figured out how to change it (preferences->standard inputs)

edit: of course these are my opinions and im sure people will disagree, but im pretty sure these truths are held to be self evident ;p

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #2 –
I think lame uses only id3v1 and id3v2. It should be in the documentation somewhere.

You can check the type of tag in your files with tag.exe, a powerful command-line tool:
http://www.neilpopham.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tag.html#download

To know more about the different types a search should help you. If search results are not good enough, do a site search via google...

For my mp3 files, I'm using id3v1 and apev2: id3v1 for compatibility, and I prefer apev2 over id3v2 because updates are much faster. With the current version of foobar2000 (0.8.3), if you choose id3v2, the whole file is rewritten, which is much slower...
id3v1 have a length limit of 30 characters, plus maybe other limitations.

Note: with tag.exe and sweep.exe , you can mass convert the tags type.
You can also do it with foobar2000 (Database->Rewrite file tags from database), but it freezes the GUI while it's working.
Best audio player for the power user: foobar2000

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #3 –
differences beween id3v2 and apev2?

does anyone know if ipod supports apev2?

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #4 –
Quote
differences beween id3v2 and apev2?

does anyone know if ipod supports apev2?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Re-read the posts above, or go [a href="http://foobar2000.org/0wn3d/403-ToS.png]here[/url]
Best audio player for the power user: foobar2000

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #5 –
Ipod does not support ape tags.
"You can fight without ever winning, but never win without a fight."  Neil Peart  'Resist'

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #6 –
>Ipod does not support ape tags.

The iPod doesn't support any tags, it is upto the uploading program to write to the database, so the tags could be in any format.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #7 –
Quote
The iPod doesn't support any tags, it is upto the uploading program to write to the database, so the tags could be in any format. [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332181"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So then, iTunes (or whatever program is used to upload files to the iPod) has to be able to read the tags, if they're going to make it into the database. Does iTunes read APE tags?
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #8 –
itunes doesn't read APE tags.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #9 –
Quote
Quote
The iPod doesn't support any tags, it is upto the uploading program to write to the database, so the tags could be in any format. [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332181"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
So then, iTunes (or whatever program is used to upload files to the iPod) has to be able to read the tags, if they're going to make it into the database. Does iTunes read APE tags?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332182"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Nope, but foobar 2000 does. And with foo_pod, your APE tagged files will work on the iPod just fine.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #10 –
Quote
Quote
differences beween id3v2 and apev2?

does anyone know if ipod supports apev2?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Re-read the posts above, or go [a href="http://foobar2000.org/0wn3d/403-ToS.png]here[/url]
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332039"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


apart from the fact that that was overly rude, i was asking an actual question.  i read the posts, obviously, but all i learned was that id3v1 was useful for compatibility reasons and apev2 is faster than id3v2 when updating the tags.  apart from that, though, does one have more powerful capabilities than another?  can one do something the other can't?

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #11 –
Quote
apart from the fact that that was overly rude, i was asking an actual question.  i read the posts, obviously, but all i learned was that id3v1 was useful for compatibility reasons and apev2 is faster than id3v2 when updating the tags.  apart from that, though, does one have more powerful capabilities than another?  can one do something the other can't? [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332230"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here's the big diffs:
* id3v1 and apev2 are written at the end of files. Therefore they are quick to write. Id3v2 (well, most versions of it) are written at the beginning of a file. This is nice because when streaming music over the web, your computer sees the first part of the file first. But it means that most times when editing tags, the entire file must be re-written, which is much slower than id3v1 and apev2 editing.
* id3v1 is very limited in the amount of info that it can hold
* id3v2 and apev2 can hold basically unlimited info, including non-standard fields
* id3v1 is most compatible and id3v2 is a close second; apev2 may be the best tag format out there but it's not compatible with many programs or hardware players.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #12 –
Quote
Quote
apart from the fact that that was overly rude, i was asking an actual question.  i read the posts, obviously, but all i learned was that id3v1 was useful for compatibility reasons and apev2 is faster than id3v2 when updating the tags.  apart from that, though, does one have more powerful capabilities than another?  can one do something the other can't? [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332230"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here's the big diffs:
* id3v1 and apev2 are written at the end of files. Therefore they are quick to write. Id3v2 (well, most versions of it) are written at the beginning of a file. This is nice because when streaming music over the web, your computer sees the first part of the file first. But it means that most times when editing tags, the entire file must be re-written, which is much slower than id3v1 and apev2 editing.
* id3v1 is very limited in the amount of info that it can hold
* id3v2 and apev2 can hold basically unlimited info, including non-standard fields
* id3v1 is most compatible and id3v2 is a close second; apev2 may be the best tag format out there but it's not compatible with many programs or hardware players.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332238"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


thx, sounds like i'll be using apev2 when i convert my flac files to mp3 for foo_pod

is there a way to easily convert from apev2 to id3v2 if i want to give an mp3 to a friend who uses itunes?

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #13 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
apart from the fact that that was overly rude, i was asking an actual question.  i read the posts, obviously, but all i learned was that id3v1 was useful for compatibility reasons and apev2 is faster than id3v2 when updating the tags.  apart from that, though, does one have more powerful capabilities than another?  can one do something the other can't? [a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332230"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Here's the big diffs:
* id3v1 and apev2 are written at the end of files. Therefore they are quick to write. Id3v2 (well, most versions of it) are written at the beginning of a file. This is nice because when streaming music over the web, your computer sees the first part of the file first. But it means that most times when editing tags, the entire file must be re-written, which is much slower than id3v1 and apev2 editing.
* id3v1 is very limited in the amount of info that it can hold
* id3v2 and apev2 can hold basically unlimited info, including non-standard fields
* id3v1 is most compatible and id3v2 is a close second; apev2 may be the best tag format out there but it's not compatible with many programs or hardware players.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332238"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


thx, sounds like i'll be using apev2 when i convert my flac files to mp3 for foo_pod

is there a way to easily convert from apev2 to id3v2 if i want to give an mp3 to a friend who uses itunes?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332240"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you use foo_pod, the tags don't even matter.  Its not even going to read them, rather it'll copy from the foobar database directly to the ipod database.  You could use no tags at all for all it cares (but I wouldn't do this anyway).

If you want to convert, and are using foobar, just change the tag type under preferences, select the files and choose "rewrite tags".  It'll take a long time to convert from APEv2 to ID3v2 though since ID3v2 has to effectively rewrite each file, which will take a long time for a lot of files.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #14 –
when it rewrites the file would it replace the old one?  should i just make copies of the files i might give to friends and rewrite the tags on the new files?

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #15 –
Quote
when it rewrites the file would it replace the old one?  should i just make copies of the files i might give to friends and rewrite the tags on the new files?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332259"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


If you tell it to convert the tag type on a file, it will indeed change the tag type on that file.  If you want it to make a copy of that file, use the Renamer first, and then rewrite that tag.  Or just convert it back when you're done.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #16 –
Quote
Quote
Quote
differences beween id3v2 and apev2?

does anyone know if ipod supports apev2?
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Re-read the posts above, or go [a href="http://foobar2000.org/0wn3d/403-ToS.png]here[/url]
[{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]


apart from the fact that that was overly rude, i was asking an actual question.  i read the posts, obviously, but all i learned was that id3v1 was useful for compatibility reasons and apev2 is faster than id3v2 when updating the tags.  apart from that, though, does one have more powerful capabilities than another?  can one do something the other can't?
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332230"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]

Sorry, I admit I was a bit brutal... Sorry again.
What I meant, is the info (differences between tag types) you were asking for is already on the forums, and accessible if you search the existing threads.
I answered your first post, and you asked the same question a second time, as if you were to lazy to search for existing threads... that's what annoyed me.
But timcupery was nicer than me and answered your question with a nice [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=37624&view=findpost&p=332238]summary[/url]

Existing threads:
Searching on "+id3v2 +apev2 +tag +format" gives you :
tools to identify the tag format
Info on tag formats: here
and here
... lots of others

Note on search:
- it's better if you put a "+" in front of the words, making them mandatory in the search.
- in the results list, the red icon indicates a hot thread, meaning  it has more replies (or  views?) than those with a blue icon
Best audio player for the power user: foobar2000

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #17 –
Quote
apev2 is faster than id3v2"

Quote
But it means that most times when editing tags, the entire file must be re-written, which is much slower than id3v1 and apev2 editing.
Only when id3v2 is not present in file. Properly implemented tagging system could update id3v2 tag as fast as apev2, without rewriting the whole file.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #18 –
Quote
Quote
apev2 is faster than id3v2"

Quote
But it means that most times when editing tags, the entire file must be re-written, which is much slower than id3v1 and apev2 editing.
Only when id3v2 is not present in file. Properly implemented tagging system could update id3v2 tag as fast as apev2, without rewriting the whole file.
[a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=332370"][{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Which is to say that writing id3v2 for the first time will take much longer than writing apev2 for the first time.
Id3v2 implements "padding" (extra blank bits) that can be filled-in with new data if hte tag is changed later, so that the entire file needn't be re-written every time. However, if the size of the tag is changed beyond the size of the padding, then the file will need to be re-written again anyway.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #19 –
How about the ReplayGain tags?

Like in this thread (MP3Gain) or this thread.
Can foobar2000 store Replaygain in ID3v2 tags?
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

apev2 vs id3v2 vs id3v1

Reply #20 –
Quote
How about the ReplayGain tags? Can foobar2000 store Replaygain in ID3v2 tags? [{POST_SNAPBACK}][/a]
Foobar can store replaygain information in id3v2 tags. However, the default is for replaygain information to be written in APE tag format, and mp3gain.exe only reads and writes APE tags.

This issue is discussed at length in [a href="http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=37607]this[/url] recent thread.
God kills a kitten every time you encode with CBR 320