NSTL WMA Pro listening test, MS claims test proves WMA Pro > HE-AAC Options

[[JAZ]]

i think they are 'supposed' to represent a % quality.. but they are just high-to-low (or should it say low-to-lower... uh oh.. i better watch out for tos8)

Have you heard problems with a ~240Kbps VBR (Q98) wma 9.1 file to say it is low quality?

[Woodinville]

i think they are 'supposed' to represent a % quality.. but they are just high-to-low (or should it say low-to-lower... uh oh.. i better watch out for tos8)

Have you heard problems with a ~240Kbps VBR (Q98) wma 9.1 file to say it is low quality?

How about this new report (DBT and all) on WMA Pro quality?

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsme...Comparison.aspx

[Woodinville]

I must admit that I am both offended and annoyed by the various insinuations in this thread. Hence, I shall say nothing here, and await evidence of the various insinuations and suggestions.

[Garf]

I must admit that I am both offended and annoyed by the various insinuations in this thread. Hence, I shall say nothing here, and await evidence of the various insinuations and suggestions.

I'll make 2 factual observations:

1) If I follow the test procedure, the Nero files will be 64kbps LC-AAC, not HE-AAC. In their very detailed description, they simply didn't enable HE-AAC in the settings dialog. You can easily verify this with Nero 7 (even the free demo version should work).

Edit: Since this behaviour seems to have been fixed/may not have existed in the version used, you can ignore this for the sake of argument. I'll replace it by: 1) It seems impossible to verify the test results and setup.

2) They consulted with MS how to set up WMA and got new tools that are apparently not publicly available. They didn't consult with us, and used an old version of the Nero AAC encoder.

This post has been edited by Garf: Jan 14 2006, 16:02

[Latexxx]

1) If I follow the test procedure, the Nero files will be 64kbps LC-AAC, not HE-AAC. In their very detailed description, they simply didn't enable HE-AAC in the settings dialog. You can easily verify this with Nero 7 (even the free demo version should work).

If this is the case, somebody should contact Microsoft because they can't keep that comparison online if they know that it is completely false. Of course they could still keep it on their page but that would likely be illegel if they keep claiming that the paper proves wma's superiority to he aac.

And doesn't that mean that Microsoft's hyper super ultra new and amazing WMA 10 Pro + is only tied with lc aac instead of he aac.

This post has been edited by Latexxx: Jan 14 2006, 14:03

[guruboolez]

Of course they could still keep it on their page but that would likely be illegel if they keep claiming that the paper proves wma's superiority to he aac.

Illegal? Do you mean that results of a test shouldn't be revealed if one term of the comparison is buggy?

[Latexxx]

Of course they could still keep it on their page but that would likely be illegel if they keep claiming that the paper proves wma's superiority to he aac.

Illegal? Do you mean that results of a test shouldn't be revealed if one term of the comparison is buggy?

No. But if they really have tested lc aac and know it, they can't keep lying by keeping that document publically available.

[guruboolez]

Of course they could still keep it on their page but that would likely be illegel if they keep claiming that the paper proves wma's superiority to he aac.

Illegal? Do you mean that results of a test shouldn't be revealed if one term of the comparison is buggy?

No. But if they really have tested lc aac and know it, they can't keep lying by keeping that document publically available.

I agree with you. It would be a lie. But in this case, the conducer or the laboratory has clearly set Nero to use HE-AAC. There's apparently a bug in the software, and the conducer can't be responsible of this (and can't necessary notice it while performing the test).

EDIT: emphasis in the quote

This post has been edited by guruboolez: Jan 14 2006, 14:33

[Garf]

But in this case, the conducer or the laboratory has clearly set Nero to use HE-AAC. There's apparently a bug in the software, and the conducer can't be responsible of this (and can't necessary notice it while performing the test).

If you fiddle around in the settings dialog, change some settings, and it clearly says "LC (Low Complexity) AAC", how on earth can you say that "it is clearly set to HE-AAC"?

Where is the bug???

[guruboolez]

But in this case, the conducer or the laboratory has clearly set Nero to use HE-AAC. There's apparently a bug in the software, and the conducer can't be responsible of this (and can't necessary notice it while performing the test).

If you fiddle around in the settings dialog, change some settings, and it clearly says "LC (Low Complexity) AAC", how on earth can you say that "it is clearly set to HE-AAC"?

Where is the bug???

You should read the testing procedure again. Step#6:
Select "Nero Digital Audio (HE-AAC v.2)....
The person has set Nero to use HE-AAC v.2 as described in the frontend. If the result is LC-AAC, then it would rather look to a bug than a feature.

[Garf]

You should read the testing procedure again. Step#6:
Select "Nero Digital Audio (HE-AAC v.2)....
The person has set Nero to use HE-AAC v.2 as described in the frontend. If the result is LC-AAC, then it would rather look to a bug than a feature.

I read the testing procedure and it says that person also went on to the detailed encoder settings and changed them. As I already said, using the defaults, or using a preset, all would have produced a good result.

This post has been edited by Garf: Jan 14 2006, 15:28