EAC and "usefua" Options

[Sebastian Mares]

Hello!

I read that using "usefua" with Plextor drives can enhance the ripping speed. If I start EAC with that option, should I also tick the box that the drive is caching audio data or not? Also, does "usefua" have any impact if I rip tracks using another device (I also have a NEC and a BenQ unit installed)?

Sebastian

This post has been edited by Sebastian Mares: Jan 30 2006, 20:33

[JeanLuc]

The commandline option -usefua will (in some cases) make EAC use the "Force Unit Access" instead of "normal" MMC read commands. According to André Wiethoff, this works with Plextor drives only.

FUA will make the drive read directly from the disc instead of reading out of its physical buffer which (if implied properly which it isn't at the moment) renders the EAC cache flushing trick obsolete since using the FUA command makes a caching drive non-caching ... you can deactivate the checkbox that says "Drive Caches Audio Data" in that case and get a ~ 50% improvement in ripping speed.

If you enable -usefua, you should run the drive features detection again ... if you are lucky, EAC will report your formerly caching Plextor drive as "non-caching".

From my experience, the NEC DVDRW drives don't cache and the BenQ 1640 DAE cache size (according to Feurio!) is some 150 kB which is smaller than the EAC read block size of 2MB (IIRC) ... it should be possible to deactivate the cache checkbox with a BenQ as well ... I recently did some testing and received some positive results.

[Synthetic Soul]

If you enable -usefua, you should run the drive features detection again ... if you are lucky, EAC will report your formerly caching Plextor drive as "non-caching".

There seems to be some evidence that the CD you use makes a difference. EAC should find that your drive does not cache; if it says it does, try with another CD.

This may be mumbo-jumbo, but if you look at the other thread there are a few of us who believe this to be true.

[Eli]

Hello!

I read that using "usefua" with Plextor drives can enhance the ripping speed. If I start EAC with that option, should I also tick the box that the drive is caching audio data or not? Also, does "usefua" have any impact if I rip tracks using another device (I also have a NEC and a BenQ unit installed)?

Sebastian

-Just wanted to clarify for you that you should UNCHECK the "This drive chaches audio" box
-The command only works with plextors but I dont know if it would have any effects good or bad on other drives.

As for it not being properly implemented in EAC is that true? As far as I can tell from what I have read its just not tested but I have not read anything about it not being properly or fully implemented.

[Sebastian Mares]

Well, should I create two shortcuts for EAC then and use the "-usefua" version when I want to rip with Plextor and then when I want to switch to NEC for example start EAC using the "regular" shortcut or what?

[spath]

The commandline option -usefua will (in some cases) make EAC use the "Force Unit Access" instead of "normal" MMC read commands. According to André Wiethoff, this works with Plextor drives only.

More precisely, EAC will issue an additional cache flushing command
using the FUA bit before reading again. I can confirm that this command
is correct and is the same command used by Plextools that I mentioned
2+ years ago on this board (and that Wiethoff refuted at the time).
So no need to test forever, it works (of course, don't forget to also
uncheck "Drive Caches Audio Data").

Also, does "usefua" have any impact if I rip tracks using another device (I also have a NEC and a BenQ unit installed)?

Using this FUA command on a drive which does not support it will not harm
your ripping other than the speed hit ; however, unless a miracle occur it
will not do anything, because the semantics of the command are non-standard
and therefore require specific firmware code to handle them.

[Sebastian Mares]

Also, does "usefua" have any impact if I rip tracks using another device (I also have a NEC and a BenQ unit installed)?

Using this FUA command on a drive which does not support it will not harm
your ripping other than the speed hit ; however, unless a miracle occur it
will not do anything, because the semantics of the command are non-standard
and therefore require specific firmware code to handle them.

Any idea what happens if I use "usefua" on a non-Plextor device that does not support the FUA bit and the "Drive caches audio" box is ticked?

[Eli]

I dont think anyone can answer that question at this point since its still not even clear exactly what and how well its working with plextors. My guess would be that other drives dont recognize the command and could either ignore it or cause some sort of error. The easiest solution is just to have 2 shortcuts, one with the command for plextor drives and one without. Some testing should be done on non-plex drives.

[spath]

Any idea what happens if I use "usefua" on a non-Plextor device that does not support the FUA bit and the "Drive caches audio" box is ticked?

In this case EAC mixes the useless FUA commands with overlapping cache
busting reads, so you're wasting time for nothing. Since the semantics of the
Plextools FUA command are very specific it is very unlikely that any other
brand will ever support this command (which does not mean that the FUA
bit would not work on other drives), so you should use two shortcuts.

[spath]

My guess would be that other drives dont recognize the command and could either ignore it or cause some sort of error.

Wrong, all drives will recognize the command and none of them will report an error.
You might want to first find out what command we're talking about before discussing
what it does.

[Eli]

I think I pretty clearly statted that it was "my guess", a google search doesnt turn up much on the usefua command. You seem to speak with more authority on the subject then anyone else I have heard so far spath. Do you have any other references on the command?

[Martin H]

@Eli

The FUA bit is documented in the SCSI-3/MMC drafts at t10.org. It can be set on some commands like Read (10) and Read (12) and defines wether the drive shall acces the media or the cache when performing the command.

This post has been edited by Martin H: Jan 31 2006, 05:45

[Martin H]

I have searched the EAC forum for info on Andre's implementation of the -usefua switch, and i found this comment from Andre :

"But I just used a sniffer to have a look how PlexTools is clearing the cache... Nice idea how they do it... It is possible that it would also work with other drives that caches.
I am not sure whether I have implemented it correctly, so it would be a good idea to test a modified version with several drives that cache (but not only "Test Drive Features", but really a comparison of how many errors go unnoticed in comparison to the old version where the "Cache" flag is used. (And also compare speeds). Because of several aspects, the "Test Drive Features" could tell that a drive has now no cache anymore, but use it nevertheless for extraction."

Source :
http://www.digital-inn.de/77551-post16.html

[spath]

I think I pretty clearly statted that it was "my guess", a google search doesnt turn up much on the usefua command. You seem to speak with more authority on the subject then anyone else I have heard so far spath. Do you have any other references on the command?

One of the reasons is that instead of blindly trusting Wiethoff or relying on google
I prefer to look at what is really going on. In this case, I studied Plextools and EAC
behaviour and I wrote my own tool to detect all kind of possible FUA support
(because some drives also support FUA, but not in the same way as Plextor).

As a side note, I never understood how "audiophiles" could accept to have
so little information about the tools they use ; while people interested in
burning quality are modifying firmwares´write strategies, people interested
in DAE are still wondering how many sectors their beloved tool read at a time.

[JeanLuc]

I can sadly confirm that the -usefua commandline doesn't work at all in my system environment ... so André is right about not recommending his rather "quick and dirty" or untested implementation.

I recently started a thread over at the EAC board to invite Plextor RW drive owners to do some testing in various system environments (and maybe help André to find a better implementation).

I hope some people will join this test ...

[Sebastian Mares]

Just posted my results - basically, it doesn't work on my system.

[clintb]

Hmm, very interesting stuff. I just got through doing a clean install of XP Pro on my Asus A7N8X Dlx 2.0 and have no apps on it. I'll give it a try and report back. Oh, Premium and 712A.

[fj4]

I've been using -usefua for a couple months now on my Plextor PX-W2410A. It gives PlexTools-like speeds up to 40x, but some errors seem to be ignored as opposed to ripping without -usefua. However, I have yet to find an audible glitch on these tracks where, usually, an difficult error would be found and the drive would grind away for hours on a single track (and produce seemingly the same result.) I do use/recommend Cool Down Drive. I have not done extensive CRC comparisons or anything like that, I'd rather be listening to my bit-perfect flac's. =P

Interesting side effect: with -usefua, EAC will always report a Sync Error before it reports a Read Error on my system. Still, no glitches can be heard at this "Sync Error." This occurs on slightly damaged discs (i.e. no label side damage but the scratches are enough to normally invoke a Read Error.)

[Eli]

I just like using it in T&C mode. Nearly the same as burst speeds with a at least some error correction and the security of T&C. If AR results match their is an added bonus. I just wish I knew about the switch months ago.

[greynol]

To those of you who have found -usefua doesn't work correctly with EAC, do you have DAEMON Tools installed on your system?

I have discovered that the installation of SPTD (SCSI Pass Through Direct) on my system has prohibited -usefua from working.

After removing SPTD, -usefua is working once again.

You can remove it by your system by downloading the installer and typing "sptdinst_x86.exe remove" at the command prompt. Typing "sptdinst_x86.exe add" will re-install it.

sptdinst_x86.exe (direct link to the executable) can be downloaded from this page:
http://www.daemon-tools.cc/dtcc/download.p...ory&catid=5

Also, remember that using EAC's Detect Read Features is not the proper way to determine if -usefua works correctly.

This post has been edited by greynol: Sep 16 2006, 22:41

[JeanLuc]

I have discovered that the installation of SPTD (SCSI Pass Through Direct) on my system has prohibited -usefua from working.

After removing SPTD, -usefua is working once again.

I wonder whether Plextools DAE (which basically uses FUA) is affected by SPTD as well ...

[spoon]

>I have discovered that the installation of SPTD (SCSI Pass Through Direct) on my system has prohibited -usefua from working.

Would that have also prohibited the FUA option in dBpowerAMP R12 from not working (you mentioned yor results on the Secure thread)?

[rudefyet]

On this note, R12 detected FUA as working with my Lite-On drive...I don't know if this is a fluke or not.

I tried the drive with EAC and the -usefua flag and it just crashes when I hit an unrecoverable read error

[smz]

...
I have discovered that the installation of SPTD (SCSI Pass Through Direct) on my system has prohibited -usefua from working.
...

greynol, how did you discovered that? what symptoms? I have Alcohol 120% on my system and it also installed SPTD but apparently I have no problem with -usefua.

Cheers!

Sergio

[spoon]

>On this note, R12 detected FUA as working with my Lite-On drive...I don't know if this is a fluke or not.

What timing values were shown?