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Topic: Shuffle vs. Random (Read 40394 times) previous topic - next topic
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Shuffle vs. Random

Hi,

I've noticed that the current shuffle (tracks) mode is vastly different from the "random" mode of 0.8.x and prior. Instead of choosing a randomly selected song after another, the order seems to follow a pre-shuffled list. I want to be able to shuffle this pre-shuffled list after each song, true randomness so to speak.

Is this simply a feature not available in foobar2000 anymore, or is there perhaps a plugin somewhere out there that would do this job for me?

Thanks in advance,
IcEr5K

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #1 –
This feature is currently not available. It has been removed because many people confused "Random" and "Shuffle" in 0.8 and complained about "Random" working as it does. You seem to be the first person to demand that.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #2 –
Actually, I always thought shuffle was meant to be like foobar2000's random untill I started using foobar. I actually prefer the random action. Maybe someone could write a plugin for that and add some extra random functions? I would like to be able to play random within an album, or artist like you could with the old shuffle plugin.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #3 –
You can shuffle within an artist or album if you use foo_browser.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #4 –
Think the guys here dont want to shuffle between albums and/or artists.. i would like a random feature too, as i notice that some artists are played very often with shuffle.. dont know.

Another thing that would be cool: SAM has a function that the same song isnt played for x minutes, same artist for y mins, same album for z mins what was pretty cool, as i hate to listen to the same album and/or artist like every 5th song again :/
But real random would be cool too

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #5 –
There is, of course, a play random track command.  So it shouldn't be difficult to implement it as a play order mode.

I think the discussion comes down to one of the two methods that you would like.

1.  Foobar plays a completely random song every time, with no bias as for what came before it.

2.  Foobar plays a completely random song that has not been played more than once before all other tracks in the playlist have also. (I think this is the iTunes-type way, but for some reason I found it difficult to express what I meant)

So, I guess it would be ideal to have access to both options depending on what you prefer.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #6 –
AOL! (me too!)

I've been missing that function, just not enough to speak up until now

It's a little annoying when you play one of your favourite songs from your playlist, and it goes into the same shuffle as always.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #7 –
I can't understand why this feature was ignored. Because one of the reasons to have a large music collection is to hear different songs. I don't want to hear the same songs played in the same "random" order.

There used to be a component which fixed this problem in 0.8

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #8 –
I believe Foobar v0.83's shuffle was called random and that was an included play mode.  Then someone (kode54, I think) released a plug-in that added the shuffle play mode, which was actually random.  The definition of shuffle and random were apparently reversed for 0.9.  But, I think the definition now is correct.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #9 –
rouge: That's just wrong. Shuffle orders the tracks in random order to prevent dupes, but random results in random playback regardless of order.

0.8.3 had random, but it didn't have shuffle. foo_shuffle added shuffle.
0.9 has shuffle, but doesn't have random order, although you can press the random button.

parive3: I think you're confused. 0.9 is better for you if you don't want dupes.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #10 –
That's what I said. =]

I was just mentioning the fact that the names were reversed.

If they both prevented dupes, neither was random.  Personally, I would like as random as possible track progresion without regard to whether it's a dupe.  Foobar has the play random track feature, which could easily be a play mode.

That would be just a basic random play.  Configuration options that would limit, say, the jump distance and whatnot (ala WinAmp) could be included.  As well as bias towards songs that were tagged with higher ratings (like a radio station) would be useful.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #11 –
The "Random" playback mode in 0.8.3 was truely random and did not prevent duplicates, so stop talking nonsense about names being reversed.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #12 –
Ok. I believe you.

If 0.83's random was random, it was removed and in it's place are 3 shuffle modes that are equivalent to the old foo_shuffle.

So, there just isn't a current analogue to the old random playmode.  That's all I'm saying.

Sad that when reading public forums, so much appears as trawls.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #13 –
i only really started to use foobar the other day, and learned about this problem from this thread. it would only had been a matter of time before i would had noticed it myself, since i use shuffle all the time.
people complaining about this seems to be few, so i feel i need to make my voice heard.

i like foobar a lot now that i've got it configured up with a lot of components, and i want to keep using it, but lack of a good shuffle feature would probably eventually turn me away from this program.
it'd be great if some options for the behaviour of shuffle were to be added, so you could set it to your liking.

the shuffle right now is also more like a shuffle+repeat feature, because it won't stop. the functionality i am looking for is just that the random order would be different each time i play the playlist, and then stop.

and why is it that the playback won't stop after playing through the songs on the playlist when using shuffle (tracks)? i cannot find a repeat (all) function to turn off...

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #14 –
Alternatively, make a "Randomizer" column like I did with my foobar (see this post).

Content is only a star.

Make a custom sort, based on $rand()

Everytime you need a different shuffling, just click the column heading. Ta-da! The list randomizes.

I make this column because even though my listeners (i.e. fellow par-tay-guys'n'gals) like 'random' tracks to be played, as the host I have to know the next song to be played, so if it's 'against the mood' I simply delete it, until the next song is acceptable.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #15 –
That's a good work-around.  Being able to see what's going to come up next would be a nice feature.  This is what I did when I used WinAmp.

However, $rand() is pretty poor at being random.  I don't code myself, but I know there are better ways to get more randomness.  Though, Foobar does have a wealth of data and variables to come up with a good random seed.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #16 –
Hm, I never know I can change foobar's random seed? How?

For a more randomizing experience, at least from my POV, use a combination of $rand() $crc() and %filesize%. Mix-and-match 'em up. Put in some elapsed time calculation there and perhaps randomized enough.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #17 –
Quote from: pepoluan on
Make a custom sort, based on $rand()


thank you for the tip.

i tried this and it worked ok, i also found i could add a toolbar button for "randomize playlist". i think i will try and use this for a while, as a last resort. i really don't feel i need to see the order of the songs though, and it's a little tedious to always do this when playing something. i know it's just a click or two extra, but i guess i'm spoiled.
i hope the built in shuffle will work better in the future. i'm really liking foobar more and more.

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #18 –
Your welcome.

Well, foosion, is it possible to make a foo_random plugin then for 0.9?

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #19 –
Quote from: pepoluan on
Your welcome.

Well, foosion, is it possible to make a foo_random plugin then for 0.9?

I hope so.

/me crosses his fingers
foobar2000 + EAC + Burrrn = Happiness

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #21 –
I think a good shuffle algorithm is important... I have my albums arranged as playlists in foobar, but I can't even cross playlists in foobar.  As for "Random" which is supposed to allow for duplicates... my question is, why?  I don't see any advantage of letting the user hear the same song twice just to obey the laws of "truly random".

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #22 –
The whole reason I switched to foobar was to get a random player that didn't start the same shuffle pattern every time I started it.  That seems to be the case with the newest foobar.  It would be really nice (essential to me really) to be able to get a truly random play order, which preferably that did not repeat.  I've had versions of foobar in the past that had both shuffle and random as well as a slider in preferences for how random you wanted the shuffle to be.

The idea of using a rand function is interesting but I would still like to be able to scroll through my playlist to find things.

This really can't be that hard...  Anyone have any ideas on where I can get the functionality that I'm after?

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #23 –
Quote from: paladinu on
The whole reason I switched to foobar was to get a random player that didn't start the same shuffle pattern every time I started it.  That seems to be the case with the newest foobar.  It would be really nice (essential to me really) to be able to get a truly random play order, which preferably that did not repeat.  I've had versions of foobar in the past that had both shuffle and random as well as a slider in preferences for how random you wanted the shuffle to be.

The idea of using a rand function is interesting but I would still like to be able to scroll through my playlist to find things.

This really can't be that hard...  Anyone have any ideas on where I can get the functionality that I'm after?



If I read correctly...wouldn't reverting to the 0.8 releases solve the problem for those who want random?


(I haven't made the switchover to 0.9 yet...)

(And I still haven't figured out Shuffle album, tag set, etc yet either...)

Shuffle vs. Random

Reply #24 –
Quote from: krabapple on
If I read correctly...wouldn't reverting to the 0.8 releases solve the problem for those who want random?


That would probably work.  Unfortunately I no longer have the bits for the old version and they don't seem to supply it on the foobar2000 web page anywhere.  Is there a good place to download older copies?