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How high can you hear (with music & lowpass), ABX required
How high can you hear?
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KikeG
post Dec 16 2002, 12:26
Post #1


WinABX developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 1578
Joined: 1-October 01
Member No.: 137



I've uploaded some test samples at http://www.kikeg.arrakis.es/lowpass in order to test how high can people hear with a clip of 'special' but real (pop) music.

These clips have a very strong high-frequency impulsive peak, at the frequency specified for every sample, and there is a lowpassed clip for each one with just that frequencies an above removed. All clips are resampled versions of the same clip, (where the strong peak is originally at 16300 KHz) , so that for every sample the peak is at a different frequency.

In order to know if you can hear the strong impulsive peak for every sample, you must be able to ABX the test sample against the lowpassed version of it. ABX is required in order to have meaningful results.

I have available just the clips shown here because I have no more space in my web page.

The 12 KHz clip should be easily ABXable for nearly anyone, specially if they are not very old. On casual listening (without concentrating) and using good soundcard & headphones (Audiophile 2496, Sennheiser HD 580) I can hear a difference on the lowpassed 17.5 KHz clip. Concentrating I could ABX the 18 KHz file, with results of 12/14 (p=0.6 %).

This should be a more realistic test of how high can people hear in extreme cases of somewhat 'real' music.

This post has been edited by KikeG: Dec 16 2002, 16:42
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KikeG
post Dec 17 2002, 16:58
Post #2


WinABX developer


Group: Developer
Posts: 1578
Joined: 1-October 01
Member No.: 137



I've finished uploading the files resampled to 48 KHz. I've uploaded additional 21 KHz and 21.5 KHz files to test some people hearing limits.

The files are now in .ape (Monkey's Audio) format, because the compression for some of the files is much better that with FLAC.

About the resampling, it was performed too with CEP 1.2a, quality 120 and post-filtering. Possible aliases due to resampling are explained at the web page:

"Update: actual files were resampled again from 44.1 KHz 16 bit to 48 KHz 32 bit and then re-dithered to 16 bit using same procedure, in order to avoid any possible bad soundcard resampling. Added noise due to this last step is mimimal.

Note on resampling effects: frequency aliases that appear due to the resampling process appear from 19 KHz to 22 KHz and are caused always from a frequency 4 KHz below (15 KHz to 18 KHz). They have a max. amplitude of around -95 dB (at 22 KHz) down the aliased frequencies. All other aliases are equal or below quantization noise. So, this aliases can be considered inaudible and of no importance in this test. ".

About this aliases, I've seen from time to time cd tracks that have a much louder in comparison constant tone at 16 KHz and above, probably caused by CRT displays (TVs, computer monitors) at the recording studios, that are unnoticed when listening, they are only noticeable on FFTs.

Anyway, it would be interesting for the people who has taken the test, to repeat it again and see if their results differ much.

This post has been edited by KikeG: Dec 17 2002, 17:23
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Posts in this topic
- KikeG   How high can you hear (with music & lowpass)   Dec 16 2002, 12:26
- - SK1   To me this is even funny.. The difference is SO VE...   Dec 16 2002, 13:48
- - daniel   :'( :'( 14khz abx:12/12 Will rest my ears...   Dec 16 2002, 14:36
- - caligae   QUOTE (KikeG @ Dec 16 2002 - 01:26 PM)This sh...   Dec 16 2002, 14:52
- - KikeG   @caligae: I have used resampling simply to genera...   Dec 16 2002, 16:04
- - KikeG   @SK1 Man, you have bat ears. If anyone could host...   Dec 16 2002, 16:16
- - Pio2001   Same as with the sweep tone, resampling in most so...   Dec 16 2002, 17:34
- - ErikS   18.5 (4/4 ABA) I was surprised... 16-17 kHz lowpa...   Dec 16 2002, 17:35
- - SK1   I don't think i have bat ears . I'm 19.5, ...   Dec 16 2002, 17:54
- - caligae   QUOTE (KikeG @ Dec 16 2002 - 05:04 PM)Also, I...   Dec 16 2002, 19:48
- - SometimesWarrior   QUOTE (Pio2001 @ Dec 16 2002 - 08:34 AM)Same ...   Dec 17 2002, 00:15
- - Pio2001   The problem might be the same at 48 kHz. Someone w...   Dec 17 2002, 00:46
- - rehgf   One of those waiting for a (good) 48 kHz version i...   Dec 17 2002, 01:02
- - Mac   Ugh, the polling software confused me! I clic...   Dec 17 2002, 01:28
- - mithrandir   The 17KHz lowpass file sounds the same as the ...   Dec 17 2002, 02:54
- - JohnV   QUOTE (Mac @ Dec 17 2002 - 02:28 AM)Ugh, the ...   Dec 17 2002, 03:52
- - KikeG   Uploading 48 KHz files, old files not available at...   Dec 17 2002, 09:16
- - SometimesWarrior   QUOTE (JohnV @ Dec 16 2002 - 06:52 PM)QUOTE (...   Dec 17 2002, 10:25
- - daniel   Yesterday I couldnt distinguish 16khz lowpass. Heh...   Dec 17 2002, 10:51
- - KikeG   I've finished uploading the files resampled to...   Dec 17 2002, 16:58
- - ff123   QUOTE (KikeG @ Dec 17 2002 - 07:58 AM)I'v...   Dec 17 2002, 17:10
- - Q!   18kHz Funny, I can abx the 18kHz lowpassed easil...   Dec 17 2002, 18:13
- - SK1   Hi again. Well, i tried and i tried . I can hear t...   Dec 17 2002, 20:20
- - Mr. Superbad   I had to focus on the area from about 1-2 seconds....   Dec 17 2002, 22:16
- - CRasch   I did a hearing test and I could hear past the 20k...   Dec 17 2002, 22:21
- - Mac   I found the same. 17khz sounded clearly different...   Dec 17 2002, 22:44
- - RIV@NVX   What means to ABX a file? How to do it?   Dec 18 2002, 22:59
- - SK1   Use a program, like WinABX (by KikeG, starter of t...   Dec 18 2002, 23:01
- - RIV@NVX   QUOTE (SK1 @ Dec 18 2002 - 02:01 PM)Use a pro...   Dec 18 2002, 23:16
- - KikeG   ABX is a method of testing audible differences, it...   Dec 19 2002, 09:03
- - zerobyte   the problem is not hearing a 20k or 18k signal, it...   Dec 19 2002, 14:49
- - KikeG   You're right, but many people can hear 18 KHz ...   Dec 19 2002, 16:04
- - KikeG   I'm seeing in the pool that some people can su...   Dec 19 2002, 16:17
- - SK1   Hello. I've decided to provide the accurate re...   Dec 19 2002, 16:56
- - KikeG   @SK1: my previous post was aimed to the other peop...   Dec 20 2002, 08:58
- - SK1   Yeah i thought so, but felt that anyway it would b...   Dec 20 2002, 14:05
- - Bedeox   Yep, ABXed this lately, and it seems I'm able ...   Dec 21 2002, 13:42
- - RIV@NVX   I can hear 17-18 Khz (using ABX 0.23). Will do mor...   Dec 21 2002, 17:10
- - TJA   Wow, iīm impressed! Either that samples are b...   Mar 3 2003, 22:05
- - ger@co   I'm impressed too. Impressed by the fact that...   Mar 3 2003, 22:33
- - TJA   Hi Ger@co, to be honest, i donīt understand your c...   Mar 3 2003, 23:12
- - KikeG   TJA, I think indeed this test is quite useful no m...   Mar 4 2003, 10:04
- - TJA   QUOTE (KikeG @ Mar 4 2003 - 11:04 AM)QUOTE A...   Mar 4 2003, 18:53
- - DonP   VERY interesting test! The first sample I tri...   Mar 4 2003, 21:32
- - KikeG   QUOTE (TJA @ Mar 4 2003 - 06:53 PM)Comment: F...   Mar 5 2003, 12:08
- - KikeG   QUOTE (DonP @ Mar 4 2003 - 09:32 PM)I didn...   Mar 5 2003, 12:13
- - tigre   QUOTE (KikeG @ Mar 5 2003 - 03:13 AM)One way ...   Mar 5 2003, 12:46
- - KikeG   QUOTE (tigre @ Mar 5 2003 - 12:46 PM)Another ...   Mar 5 2003, 12:51
- - DonP   QUOTE (KikeG @ Mar 5 2003 - 03:13 AM)Interest...   Mar 5 2003, 14:08
- - KikeG   QUOTE (DonP @ Mar 5 2003 - 02:08 PM)Is it pos...   Mar 5 2003, 14:41
- - TJA   I tried the 19 kHz samples again and is was sooo e...   Mar 6 2003, 03:51
- - CiTay   QUOTE (TJA @ Mar 6 2003 - 03:51 AM)But i have...   Mar 6 2003, 13:51
- - GeSomeone   QUOTE (CiTay @ Mar 6 2003 - 01:51 PM)QUOTE (T...   Mar 6 2003, 14:04
- - DonP   QUOTE (TJA @ Mar 5 2003 - 09:51 PM)About high...   Mar 6 2003, 14:32
- - CiTay   QUOTE (GeSomeone @ Mar 6 2003 - 02:04 PM)I wo...   Mar 6 2003, 14:40
- - CiTay   By the way: 15.75 KHz tones are present on many (e...   Mar 6 2003, 14:49
- - TJA   Hello together, when thatīs not even 16 kHz, it i...   Mar 6 2003, 17:22
- - TJA   Hi! Thanx to Kikeg for those 19.5 and 20.5 sa...   Mar 11 2003, 14:23
- - TJA   Update: No way to hear the 21kHz lowpass But 20.5...   Mar 13 2003, 09:56
- - KikeG   Still, take the results with a grain of salt, beca...   Mar 13 2003, 11:22
- - masterofimages   A very interesting test. First time I've ABXed...   Mar 17 2003, 23:51


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