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Topic: Nero AAC Development (Read 65669 times) previous topic - next topic
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Nero AAC Development

I'm wondering if it's safe to do another encode on my music collection. I know that development on the Nero AAC codec is still going on, but I'm wondering how far along it is. I'd hate to take the incredible amount of time it takes to encode all my songs, only to have a new version of the encoder available a few weeks later.

Now obviously I don't expect a date or anything... in fact, I don't even really expect a ballpark-estimate. I'm just wondering if it's in the forseeable future.

Also, menno mentioned that it should be rather easy to create an OS X version of the encoder, if only they (he) were able to get a Mac to develop on. How's that going?

Nero AAC Development

Reply #1 –
I am not sure how Mac OS X development is going but I can comment on a ballpark estimate when a updated encoder will come out.  We should be seeing a updated Nero AAC encoder either by the end of this month or maybe the end of next month.  I was told it would take about 1-2 months and that was in the beginning of April.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #2 –
Hmm... hope it's in time for me to do a full re-encode by the end of June.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #3 –
If not you could always push it back a little.  The newer Nero AAC encoder is supposed to solve many compatibility issues as well as add some quality tweaks.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #4 –
Actually, it's already out and integrated into the newest Nero paid products, which is quite interesting considering that there's (still) no word the [free] CLI update...    Any news, Garf et. al.?
Copy Restriction, Annulment, & Protection = C.R.A.P. -Supacon

Nero AAC Development

Reply #5 –
That is interesting.  Theoretically then you can already use it if you have the latest version of the Nero software bundle.

I guess the stand-alone free version will come out shortly then.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #6 –
Quote from: The Sheep of DEATH on
Actually, it's already out and integrated into the newest Nero paid products, which is quite interesting considering that there's (still) no word the [free] CLI update...    Any news, Garf et. al.?

Please take into account this specific list of changes for version in Nero bundle:
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=553898

Nothing has changed considering quality for stereo files since latest CLI version.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #7 –
Quote from: muaddib on
Nothing has changed considering quality for stereo files since latest CLI version.

Has this problem been fixed? That would be a quality change in stereo files.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=516451
Since then, I went lossless, when going lossy I trusted lame mp3 at high bitrates more. I use aac only for very low bitrates.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Squeller on
... when going lossy I trusted lame mp3 at high bitrates more. I use aac only for very low bitrates.

  And these are your mistakes.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #9 –
Quote from: ozmosis82 on
I'm wondering if it's safe to do another encode on my music collection. I know that development on the Nero AAC codec is still going on, but I'm wondering how far along it is.

Same here! The forum reminds me of mpc. i also think about encoding to AAc but there are downsides. Nero aac is not as actively developed as mp3. AND many many many inhouse audio players (dvd players, or however they are called today) DO NOT play AAC audio files but mp3 and wma sometimes.
So will the format die?

I was searching for a good overall codec which is also good at low bitrats. I don't think Vorbis will win on non geek devices, so there is only AAC...

But also seems on a dead end like vorbis or mpc.

Why don't so many home audio players (almost any) play aac?

Nero AAC Development

Reply #10 –
AAC is not vorbis...for one, it has portable support in the ipod.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #11 –
You guys are too quick to declare something dead. I'd take MPC over AAC. I don't need 80k , mpc is good at 128 k and excellent at 170~200 range. There plenty of linux options and some hardware players as well. AAC without ipod / itunes would have less support than MPC / Vorbis. Am I missing something? I Can't remember the last time I saw any AAC hifi / dap outside ipods . In linux heavy patents keep it out of most distros and repos, In contrast Vorbis, Flac, Wavpack and MPC are supported in most players / rippers out of the box.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #12 –
Nero AAC Codec is not standard & I don't use it for archiving.
Vorbis/MPC are dead, because of lack of hardware support.
Vorbis is great for game developing.

AAC Cons:
Lack of AAC support in any DVD Players/Home Audio Systems.(WMA 10 Pro too)
Most car audio systems doesnt support AAC.(WMA 10 Pro too)


Any format without hardware support are dead, like Vorbis, MPC, WMA 10 Pro.

Thats horrible, I can only play AAC files in some DAPs & modern Cell/PDA phones.

I don't have any other choice, only WAV & MP3.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #13 –
Quote from: CPKTV on
Nero AAC Codec is not standard & I don't use it for archiving.

Not standard? What is this standard you're talking about?

Quote from: CPKTV on
Lack of AAC support in any DVD Players/Home Audio Systems.(WMA 10 Pro too)
Most car audio systems doesnt support AAC.(WMA 10 Pro too)

  Utter rubbish. Most Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer car audio systems support AAC. Regarding DVD Players/Home audio Systems, the PlayStation3, Wii and Xbox 360 all support AAC. I know FAR more people who use these devices as for home audio than some obscure system. Also there's Slingbox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding#Hardware

Nero AAC Development

Reply #14 –
Quote from: senab on
Quote from: CPKTV on
Nero AAC Codec is not standard & I don't use it for archiving.

Not standard? What is this standard you're talking about?

Quote from: CPKTV on
Lack of AAC support in any DVD Players/Home Audio Systems.(WMA 10 Pro too)
Most car audio systems doesnt support AAC.(WMA 10 Pro too)

  Utter rubbish. Most Kenwood, Sony and Pioneer car audio systems support AAC. Regarding DVD Players/Home audio Systems, the PlayStation3, Wii and Xbox 360 all support AAC. I know FAR more people who use these devices as for home audio than some obscure system. Also there's Slingbox.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Audio_Coding#Hardware



Nero is not standard, because:
Doesnt encode accurate in CBR mode.
The latest version quality is not good.

Hahahahaha...
Go & visit Sony, Kenwood & Pioneer sites.
How many head units supports AAC?
Sony, Kenwood & Pioneer?
That's all Car Audio brands you can say?
Thats horrible funny: Regarding DVD Players/Home audio Systems, the PlayStation3, Wii and Xbox 360 all support AAC: these are gaming cosoles, not BD Players.
People don't buy PS3 for watching BD Movies & listening to AAC files.
They will convert any audio files to MP3 & wait for next gen of BD Players.
MP3 is supported in all stuff.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #15 –
Quote from: CPKTV on
Nero is not standard, because:
Doesnt encode accurate in CBR mode.
The latest version quality is not good.


Umm...  The latest version of Nero AAC is supposed to provide better (if not the same) quality as the previous build when using non-classical music.  Do you have ABX test results?  I also don't see how Nero's AAC encoder isn't standard just because it doesn't produce good quality (or so you say).  I guess we would need your definitely of what standard is.  There isn't a single "standard" AAC encoder on the market that is used by every application.  There isn't a single "standard" mp3 encoder either.  So what do you mean?  There are more car audio brands that support AAC as well.  I went to Best Buy and out of the 21 that they had, 17 or so supported AAC audio files.  I don't remember the exact number but I wrote it down in my PDA.  I made another post where I stated the exact numbers.

Quote from: CPKTV on
Thats horrible funny: Regarding DVD Players/Home audio Systems, the PlayStation3, Wii and Xbox 360 all support AAC: these are gaming cosole, not BD Players.
People don't buy PS3 for watching BD Movies & listening to AAC files.
They will convert any audio files to MP3 & wait for next gen of BD Players.
MP3 is supported in all stuff.


Actually, 80% of PS3 owners use the console for Blu-ray playback.  On top of that, employees of electronics stores will push the PS3 over other stand-alone Blu-ray player models.  They also keep PS3's stocked in the home theater department as well as the gaming department of many Best Buys (every Best Buy that I have visited does this).  Not only that but there are many, many, many people who use their consoles for playing back media.  Visit either the PS3 or Xbox 360 forums and you will see just how many people use their consoles for media playback.  I myself use my Xbox 360 all the time for this as my consoles are in the living room while my computers are in the office.  I can wirelessly stream music to both consoles or just hook up my iPod/Zune directly into the Xbox 360.  It comes in handy whenever I am entertaining guests or just feel like playing some music through my theater system.

Quote from: shadowking on
AAC without ipod / itunes would have less support than MPC / Vorbis.


That is incorrect.  Microsoft's Zune (all of them), Creative Zen (all of the newer Zen's), many SanDisk Sansa players, Sony's new Walkman players, and many others support the playback of AAC audio files.  AAC definitely has more support than MPC and Vorbis put together (this is not including Rockbox, only official firmware).  The iPod line just happen to be the most popular players that support AAC but there are many, many others that support it as well.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #16 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Quote from: CPKTV on

Nero is not standard, because:
Doesnt encode accurate in CBR mode.
The latest version quality is not good.


Umm...  The latest version of Nero AAC is supposed to provide better (if not the same) quality as the previous build when using non-classical music.  Do you have ABX test results?  I also don't see how Nero's AAC encoder isn't standard just because it doesn't produce good quality (or so you say).  I guess we would need your definitely of what standard is.  There isn't a single "standard" AAC encoder on the market that is used by every application.  There isn't a single "standard" mp3 encoder either.  So what do you mean?  There are more car audio brands that support AAC as well.  I went to Best Buy and out of the 21 that they had, 17 or so supported AAC audio files.  I don't remember the exact number but I wrote it down in my PDA.  I made another post where I stated the exact numbers.

Quote from: CPKTV on
Thats horrible funny: Regarding DVD Players/Home audio Systems, the PlayStation3, Wii and Xbox 360 all support AAC: these are gaming cosole, not BD Players.
People don't buy PS3 for watching BD Movies & listening to AAC files.
They will convert any audio files to MP3 & wait for next gen of BD Players.
MP3 is supported in all stuff.


Actually, 80% of PS3 owners use the console for Blu-ray playback.  On top of that, employees of electronics stores will push the PS3 over other stand-alone Blu-ray player models.  They also keep PS3's stocked in the home theater department as well as the gaming department of many Best Buys (every Best Buy that I have visited does this).  Not only that but there are many, many, many people who use their consoles for playing back media.  Visit either the PS3 or Xbox 360 forums and you will see just how many people use their consoles for media playback.  I myself use my Xbox 360 all the time for this as my consoles are in the living room while my computers are in the office.  I can wirelessly stream music to both consoles or just hook up my iPod/Zune directly into the Xbox 360.  It comes in handy whenever I am entertaining guests or just feel like playing some music through my theater system.

Quote from: shadowking on
AAC without ipod / itunes would have less support than MPC / Vorbis.


That is incorrect.  Microsoft's Zune (all of them), Creative Zen (all of the newer Zen's), many SanDisk Sansa players, Sony's new Walkman players, and many others support the playback of AAC audio files.  AAC definitely has more support than MPC and Vorbis put together (this is not including Rockbox, only official firmware).  The iPod line just happen to be the most popular players that support AAC but there are many, many others that support it as well.


What do you thing is better:
Winamp's AAC Encoder or Nero AAC?
What about Alpine & Clarion?
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/p...ng=en&tab=F
What about old Car Audio Systems?
Thats stupid, PS3/XBox 360 optimized for gaming, not for a high-end BD Player.
JUST IMAGINE, USING PS3 GAMEPAD INSTEAD OF REMOTE CONTROL.???

Nero AAC Development

Reply #17 –
The PS3 is a really good BD player, probably one of the best and with software updates it supports the BD 2.0 Profile.  If you don't want to use the controller for movie playback Sony makes a remote control specifically for movie playback on the PS3.  (I know this is off topic)

Nero AAC Development

Reply #18 –
Quote from: jpatt225 on
The PS3 is a really good BD player, probably one of the best and with software updates it supports the BD 2.0 Profile.  If you don't want to use the controller for movie playback Sony makes a remote control specifically for movie playback on the PS3.


For now, its good, but for future, it's not.
I will buy a nex-gen Philips BD Players instead of this game box for using in home.
Nex-gen of BD players supports software updates.
I'm watching BD movies in my PC.
With this monster high-end sound card:
Auzentech X-Fi Prelude 7.1


Could you compare this sound card with PS3 audio chipset?

Nero AAC Development

Reply #19 –
Fair enough.  One advantage to waiting is that prices will continue to come down.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #20 –
Quote from: CPKTV on
What do you thing is better:
Winamp's AAC Encoder or Nero AAC?
What about Alpine & Clarion?
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/p...ng=en&tab=F
What about old Car Audio Systems?
Thats stupid, PS3/XBox 360 optimized for gaming, not for a high-end BD Player.
JUST IMAGINE, USING PS3 GAMEPAD INSTEAD OF REMOTE CONTROL.???


From my own ABX tests, I found that WinAmp's AAC encoder was on par with the iTunes AAC encoder at the 128kbps bitrate.  I found that Nero AAC had a slight advantage over both.  As for the car CD decks, I didn't look at the brands.  I just looked at whether or not they played AAC files.  Sony and Kenwood are the two major brands sold at commercial stores such as Best Buy.  Most of their units play AAC files just fine.  I guess I don't see the point in arguing against gaming consoles as multimedia devices whenever they are used as such.  The PS3 is one of the best (if not the best due to future compatibility) Blu-ray players out there.  Its video quality was tested to be better than some of those $1500 players and its firmware is constantly being upgraded.

Quote from: CPKTV on
For now, its good, but for future, it's not.
I will buy a nex-gen Philips BD Players instead of this game box.


Not to delve too far off topic but the PS3 is currently the only Blu-ray player on the market that supports profile 1.1 and has the ability to be upgraded to support profile 2.0.  It is also the only player to have the essential hardware for profile 2.0 support.  So the PS3 is currently the best player now and for the future.  Not only that but the PS3 is only $399 where most stand-alone players are in the $500+ range.  So yes, the PS3 is currently the best Blu-ray player on the market and will be for some time.  I also use my PS3 remote to control movie playback all the time.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #21 –
Quote from: kornchild2002 on
Quote from: CPKTV on


What do you thing is better:
Winamp's AAC Encoder or Nero AAC?
What about Alpine & Clarion?
http://www.alpine-usa.com/US-en/products/p...ng=en&tab=F
What about old Car Audio Systems?
Thats stupid, PS3/XBox 360 optimized for gaming, not for a high-end BD Player.
JUST IMAGINE, USING PS3 GAMEPAD INSTEAD OF REMOTE CONTROL.???


From my own ABX tests, I found that WinAmp's AAC encoder was on par with the iTunes AAC encoder at the 128kbps bitrate.  I found that Nero AAC had a slight advantage over both.  As for the car CD decks, I didn't look at the brands.  I just looked at whether or not they played AAC files.  Sony and Kenwood are the two major brands sold at commercial stores such as Best Buy.  Most of their units play AAC files just fine.  I guess I don't see the point in arguing against gaming consoles as multimedia devices whenever they are used as such.  The PS3 is one of the best (if not the best due to future compatibility) Blu-ray players out there.  Its video quality was tested to be better than some of those $1500 players and its firmware is constantly being upgraded.

Quote from: CPKTV on
For now, its good, but for future, it's not.
I will buy a nex-gen Philips BD Players instead of this game box.


Not to delve too far off topic but the PS3 is currently the only Blu-ray player on the market that supports profile 1.1 and has the ability to be upgraded to support profile 2.0.  It is also the only player to have the essential hardware for profile 2.0 support.  So the PS3 is currently the best player now and for the future.  Not only that but the PS3 is only $399 where most stand-alone players are in the $500+ range.  So yes, the PS3 is currently the best Blu-ray player on the market and will be for some time.  I also use my PS3 remote to control movie playback all the time.

Yes...
You're right about PS3, because of it GPU: nVIDIA RSX:

Specifications
  • 550 MHz G71 based GPU on 90 nm process [1]
    • 300+ million transistors (600 million with Cell CPU) [2]
    • Multi-way programmable parallel floating-point shader pipelines[3]
      • Independent pixel/vertex shader architecture
      • 24 parallel pixel-shader ALU westly pipes
        • 5 ALU operations per pipeline, per cycle (2 vector4 or 2 scalar/dual/co-issue and fog ALU)
        • 27 FLOPS per pipeline, per cycle
      • 8 parallel vertex pipelines
        • 2 ALU operations per pipeline, per cycle (1 vector4 and 1 scalar, dual issue)
        • 10 FLOPS per pipeline, per cycle
      • Maximum vertex count: 1.1 billion vertices per second
        • polygon count: 250 million polygons per second
      • Maximum shader operations: 100 billion shader operations per second
      • Floating Point Operations per Second: 364 Gigaflops per Second ((27*24+8*10)*500)
    • 24 texture filtering units (TF) and 8 vertex texture addressing units (TA)
      • 24 filtered samples per clock
        • Maximum texel fillrate: 12.0 GigaTexels per second (24 textures * 500 MHz)
      • 32 unfiltered texture samples per clock, ( 8 TA x 4 texture samples )
    • 8 Render Output units / pixel rendering pipelines
      • Peak pixel fillrate (theoretical): 4.4 Gigapixel per second
      • Maximum Z sample rate: 8.0 GigaSamples per second (2 Z-samples * 8 ROPs * 500 MHz)
      • Maximum anti-aliasing sample rate: 8.0 GigaSamples per second (2 AA samples * 8 ROPs * 500 MHz)
    • Maximum Dot product operations: 51 billion per second [4]
    • 128-bit pixel precision offers rendering of scenes with high dynamic range rendering (HDR)
    • 256 MB GDDR3 RAM at 650 MHz[5] [6]
      • 128-bit memory bus width
      • 22.4 GB/s read and write bandwidth
    • Cell FlexIO bus interface
      • 20 GB/s read to the Cell and XDR memory
      • 15 GB/s write to the Cell and XDR memory
    • Support for OpenGL ES 2.0
    • Support for S3TC texture compression [1]
But it's funny: The Best BD Player is a Gaming Console.

I think Nero AAC is not standard becuase: when you using CBR mode for converting to AAC, Nero doesnt accurately do that.
For example: -cbr 128000 -lc & the result is: 129KB CBR.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #22 –
Quote from: CPKTV on
I think Nero AAC is not standard becuase: when you using CBR mode for converting to AAC, Nero doesnt accurately do that.
For example: -cbr 128000 -lc & the result is: 129KB CBR.
[/b]

Really? In my own tests, it's been pretty consistently 3 kbps higher than expected; i.e., you use -cbr 125000 to get 128 kbps, because -cbr 128000 gives you 131 kbps. Are you consistently getting 129, instead? If so, it's a curious discrepancy. 

    - M.

Nero AAC Development

Reply #23 –
Quote from: M on
Quote from: CPKTV on
I think Nero AAC is not standard becuase: when you using CBR mode for converting to AAC, Nero doesnt accurately do that.
For example: -cbr 128000 -lc & the result is: 129KB CBR.
[/b]

Really? In my own tests, it's been pretty consistently 3 kbps higher than expected; i.e., you use -cbr 125000 to get 128 kbps, because -cbr 128000 gives you 131 kbps. Are you consistently getting 129, instead? If so, it's a curious discrepancy. 

    - M.


Here is the test resualt:
-cbr 128000 -lc

Using Media Info Lite:
General
Complete name                    : C:\Documents and Settings\***\My Documents\Tekken 3.m4a
Format                          : MPEG-4
Format profile                  : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                        : mp42
File size                        : 2.46 MiB
Duration                        : 2mn 37s
Overal bit rate                  : 131 Kbps
Encoded date                    : UTC 2008-06-06 23:14:58
Tagged date                      : UTC 2008-06-06 23:15:08
Writing application              : Nero AAC codec / Aug  6 2007

Audio
Format                          : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version                  : Version 4
Format profile                  : LC
Format settings, SBR            : No
Duration                        : 2mn 37s
Bit rate mode                    : VBR
Bit rate                        : 130 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                : 143 Kbps
Channel(s)                      : 2 channels
Channel positions                : L R
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Resolution                      : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 2.43 MiB
Encoded date                    : UTC 2008-06-06 23:14:58
Tagged date                      : UTC 2008-06-06 23:15:08

Chapters
1                                : 00:00:00.059 -


Using Winamp's CT AAC+:
General
Complete name                    : C:\Documents and Settings\***\My Documents\Tekken 3.m4a
Format                          : MPEG-4
Format profile                  : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID                        : mp42
File size                        : 2.43 MiB
Duration                        : 2mn 37s
Overal bit rate                  : 130 Kbps
Encoded date                    : UTC 2008-06-06 23:31:37
Tagged date                      : UTC 2008-06-06 23:31:43

Audio
Format                          : AAC
Format/Info                      : Advanced Audio Codec
Format version                  : Version 4
Format profile                  : LC
Format settings, SBR            : No
Codec ID                        : 40
Duration                        : 2mn 37s
Bit rate mode                    : Variable
Bit rate                        : 128 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                : 135 Kbps
Channel(s)                      : 2 channels
Channel positions                : L R
Sampling rate                    : 44.1 KHz
Resolution                      : 16 bits
Stream size                      : 2.40 MiB
Encoded date                    : UTC 2008-06-06 23:31:37
Tagged date                      : UTC 2008-06-06 23:31:43

VBR?
Why?

Nero AAC Development

Reply #24 –
Quote from: CPKTV on
But it's funny: The Best BD Player is a Gaming Console.

I think Nero AAC is not standard becuase: when you using CBR mode for converting to AAC, Nero doesnt accurately do that.
For example: -cbr 128000 -lc & the result is: 129KB CBR.


I get your point and have been against the whole PS3 marketing campaign from its second re-invention.  In the beginning, the PS3 was advertised as a gaming console with Blu-ray capabilities.  The gaming library for the PS3 was ho hum (as it should have been, all console launches are like that) so Sony changed the marketing strategy behind the PS3 to show it as a Blu-ray player with gaming capabilities.  I get your point as some people just don't want to purchase a gaming console to use as a Blu-ray player.

Just out of curiosity, why would you ever want to encode CBR AAC files?  I understand wanting a bitrate limitation for internet radio broadcasts but a difference between 128kbps and 130kbps isn't going to make a difference.  Using CBR (especially for Nero's AAC encoder) really hinders its performance when compared to using its VBR presets (just like Lame mp3)