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Topic: How far is Vorbis peeling? (Read 6840 times) previous topic - next topic
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How far is Vorbis peeling?

I have heard that Ogg Vorbis is (or will be?) peelable, but I haven't seen much discussion about this feature, which I think could be very useful in the future when hopefully ogg becomes more popular and vorbis portables become available. That would also allow people to share very hq encoded music (e.g. -q8), smaller than lossless, and then peel the files according to their needs, say-q4.99 for casual listening and -q3 for street listening on a portable
How far is peeling for vorbis from becoming a reality? Is there a way to peel current RC3-encoded files?

~Dologan

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #1 –
I believe that bitrate peeling is already supported in the code, there are just no utilities yet to actually do this.  I would imagine that by the time 1.0 rolls around, this functionality should be available... not sure when that will be for sure though.

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #2 –
The ODDCast DSP does bit pealing I believe. But this is only usefull for internet radio.

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #3 –
I seen a thread in the Xiph mailing list that stated they had hacked together a simple peeling tool. Esentially the guy said it only supported one bitrate ATM(ie. peels any Vorbis down to 64). You should be able to do a search and find the thread.

Dibrom's right, the code is already in place and can be used now but limited tools are available.

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #4 –
Segher Boessenkool has a very preliminary "toy" peeler (as he described it).
http://www.xiph.org/archives/vorbis/0214.html

I just asked Segher if there has been any progress with it recently.
Answer was no, because he has been busy. Hopefully soon though.
Juha Laaksonheimo

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #5 –
Peeling is going to be the SHIZ! Have they started messing around with wavlets yet?

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #6 –
Hehe I always have to chuckle whenever someone mentions wavelets, because they seem to be one of those things that people perpetually talk about as awesome but nobody actually uses.  I remember back in 1994 people were saying how the next version of PKZip might use wavelets and blow the competition out of the water...

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #7 –
LOL. I just seen someone ask about it the other day in regards to the Xvid codec.

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #8 –
You can also talk to uiver in #vorbis about bitrate peeling. He's been working a lot on it recently.

Wavelets won't be worked on until after Vorbis 1.0 is released.

Wavelet is not a solution to everything. It has to be used correctly and there are so many different types of wavelets you have to figure out the best one for your own use. Wavelet would be pretty useless for a general compressor like PKZIP.

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #9 –
Quote
Originally posted by Delirium
Hehe I always have to chuckle whenever someone mentions wavelets, because they seem to be one of those things that people perpetually talk about as awesome but nobody actually uses.  I remember back in 1994 people were saying how the next version of PKZip might use wavelets and blow the competition out of the water...



Actually jpeg2000 is using wavelets.

but test show that wavelet encoding is almost only usefull for images/pictures.

Lurawave is another image format that has ben utilizing wavelets for quite som years know.

I have all my cd cover in lurawave format and are now shifting to jpeg2000. which are almost the same but shoulde beable to open with MSIE 7.0


Actuall normal .jpg's and .gif are like using fraunhoff acm codec...just to old and inefficient.
Today you use .png (lossless) and .jp2 (lossy)

.png works with msie 5.0 and later
Sven Bent - Denmark

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #10 –
Quote
Originally posted by tangent
You can also talk to uiver in #vorbis about bitrate peeling. He's been working a lot on it recently.
uiver is Segher's nick name... as I said he has been busy recently.
Juha Laaksonheimo

How far is Vorbis peeling?

Reply #11 –
I'm really looking forward for Ogg Vorbis 1.0 and it's bitrate peeling feature. IMHO it's one of most important features of Ogg Vorbis.

I buy lot's of cd's as i prefer to have music i like in best possible format and in physical form. Because i like all kinds of music, i try to minimize risk of  buying cd's which i wouldn't like by listening samples of records from webstores like Cdnow or Amazon. However, the quality of samples sucks a lot, at worst they've been something like "16kbs Realaudio".

With bitrate peeling webshops could make samples at 128kbs and they would scale depending of connection. I have 256kbs ADSL so i would enjoy them at full quality. Because Ogg Vorbis is royalty-free, i hope that Vorbis samples would be longer than typical 30 seconds as they are now on many webshops.

Few hints from reasonable to worse quality music samples for those who still buy cd's  (and like various electronic and dancemusic):

http://www.homebass.ca 
Canadian dancemusic webshop, has 30 second high quality (ABR 100kbs) and low quality (CBR 32kbs 22khz) MP3-samples for most of their selection. 

http://www.groovetech.com 
American dancemusic webshop. On frontpage click America, there is larger selection than on "rest of the world". 
1.30 second 32 or 20kbs  realaudio streams for all their selection.

http://www.cdnow.com
30 second 20kbs 22khz Windowsmedia streams, better than Realaudio streams which they offer. Sometimes there are MP3 samples, which are pretty good.

http://music.yahoo.com/music/search/advanced/
Yahoo! Music's webshop, samples are mainly from same records as in Cdnow. Sometimes Yahoo! Music has samples from records which Cdnow don't, and otherwise. 30 second 20kbs 22khz Windowsmedia streams.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/catalog.gsp...t=4104&cat=4104
I stumbled to Wal-Marts webshop by accident. I haven't used it before so i don't know how much about it.
30second 32kbs Realaudiostreams

I include these two because i have found samples for many (rare) records which i haven't found on Cdnow or Amazon.com:

http://www.amazon.fr 
32kbs Realaudio streams with picture of record on Realplayer windows where playing sample is from.

http://www.amazon.de 
16kbs Realaudio streams