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Topic: PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2 (Read 21415 times) previous topic - next topic
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PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

I have a cd player Yamaha CDX-10000. I like it's sound, but almost all of my music stored on mediaserver in flacs.

When I want to listen some album, I need to burn it on CD first. It's not very useful. Now I want to replace the cd player with something that allow me to manage music playback in more easy way. I think about a PC with good DAC / soundcart. I really love my Yamaha's SQ, and do not want to loose it.

After some googling I've found the next options:

1. RME HDSP 9652 - $700
2. RME HDSP 9632 - $500
3. Lynx L22 (almost the same thing as Lynx TWO) - $700
4. Echo AudioFire 2 - $200

I've asked the same question on the other forum. One of the members adviced me to choose Asus Xonar Essense.

My budget is up 700 USD. I'm going to use the divece only for listening, not for mastering or DJ-ing.
Any ideas?

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #1 –
Just a nice quality soundcard could be all you will ever need.
First off, is your computer near your amplifier? Is something wrong with onboard audio so you can't use it? If it is, then nice M-Audio-style sound card (Audiophile 2496, just an example) would be all you need - just connect it to amplifier's line in. If your amplifier has some sort of DAC integrated (has digital inputs), you could feed it from your computer, most modern motherboards have some sort of digital output, so use it. If your computer doesn't have onboard digital output, any soundcard with digital outputs will do. If your amp doesn't have digital inputs, then I suggest buying some inexpensive-non-audiophile-bullshit-included DAC and enjoy your music.
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PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #2 –
Looks like Asus Xonar Essence has some hissing trouble - http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/546291...tx-from-44-1khz

As 'hlloyge' suggested already, check 1st if there are some digital (S/PDIF) outputs in your computer motherboard (even pins not taken in use as default).

Juha

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Juha on
Looks like Asus Xonar Essence has some hissing trouble


"I've since tested this card with 4 other headphones. Two of them didn't give me any white noise, but the other three did."

White noise problems at only one particular sample rate is headphone related?

Doesn't pass the smell-test!

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #5 –
I have a TC electronic card, and I am less than pleased.

Loopback measurements suggests that I have to use ASIO to get more than 80dB SNR (using kmixer for everything else?). The firewire implementation of either the soundcard or my motherboard is quirky, and I often have to reboot my PC for it to work at all.

-k

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #6 –
Quote from: greynol on
Quote from: Juha on
Looks like Asus Xonar Essence has some hissing trouble


"I've since tested this card with 4 other headphones. Two of them didn't give me any white noise, but the other three did."

White noise problems at only one particular sample rate is headphone related?

Doesn't pass the smell-test!

Maybe the other headphones aren't as loud, so the hiss is not audible?

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #7 –
First of all, thank you for the response!

Quote from: hlloyge on
Just a nice quality soundcard could be all you will ever need.

I have tested Creative SB Live (my current sound card) and Creative Audigy II (PCI). Both of them sounds much worse than CD-player. And I do not heare any difference beetwen them.

Quote from: hlloyge on
First off, is your computer near your amplifier?

Yes, the PC is right newr the amp. It's about 40 cm beetwen them.


Quote from: hlloyge on
Is something wrong with onboard audio so you can't use it?

I can use it, it works stable, I do not have any problems with sound, but there is one "little" problem - I do not like how it sounds.


Quote from: hlloyge on
If it is, then nice M-Audio-style sound card (Audiophile 2496, just an example) would be all you need - just connect it to amplifier's line in.

I have read somewhere in the Internet that M-Audio-style cards usually quite overpriced. Most of audio-related sites recommends Lynx or RME staff.

Quote from: hlloyge on
If your amplifier has some sort of DAC integrated (has digital inputs), you could feed it from your computer, most modern motherboards have some sort of digital output, so use it.

Unfortunately, no. My amp has only RCA conectors.

Quote from: hlloyge on
inputs, then I suggest buying some inexpensive-non-audiophile-bullshit-included DAC and enjoy your music.

It sounds very sounds reasonable.


Quote from: Melomane on
Behringer UCA 202 , 30$...
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/behrin...202-review.html

Looks very interesting! But... it's unbelievable that $30 soundcard sounds as good as, for example, $200 AudioFire or $500 RME. Did anyone heard the UCA 202? How's it in comparison to other hardware listed in this thread?

<Offtopic> But I have a Sansa Clip + player, which is very cheap but sounds even better than iPod (and measurements confirm that), so I believe in cheap-but-good products.</Offtopic>

Quote from: Melomane on
edit : have RME digipad 96/8 to sell!

What's the price?

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #8 –
I don't know that it is applicable here, but I, of necessity, do the work on preparing my LP transfers for CD using headphones. I have a good soundcard, a good headphone amplifier, and good headphones, but there is noticeable fan noise from the computer. That could be fixed with enough money, but so could a lot of other things. Most of the time it is tuned out of my awareness.

For several years I used Sennheiser HD 600 phones, which are especially comfortable, sound very nice, have very good specs, and allowed me to pick up many low level vinyl defects that probably would rarely be noticed under normal listening for enjoyment conditions.

However, every once in a while, listening on the living room HiFi system, I would end up with a CD from an old album that had very intrusive tape hiss, hiss that I had found too low level to be very noticeable while working on the album, or that I had not noticed at all. I would checked back on the computer, and sure enough, no hiss problem there. Almost all of these albums could be made better (my evaluation) with more NR.

Being slow on the uptake, this went on for quite a while. I occasionally pondered why the HF response was so much better from my speakers (or the living room environment), but never really thought about the headphones.

One day I did not like the latest CD because of tape hiss. I didn't remember it at all from working on the album. Checking back, I just did not hear it on the computer. The computer fan noise does not sound like tape hiss, but could it be masking the hiss?

With a headphone extension cord I was able to go outside the computer room and close the door. That eliminated all computer noises. Now I could hear the hiss on the headphones. It still didn't seem anywhere as loud (relative to the music) as from the living room speakers, but it wasn't hard to hear.

Next I tried some Sony closed back headphones. These are not as nice to wear as the open back HD 600s, but the hiss was definitely louder. Back in the computer room I could still hear the hiss quite clearly with the Sonys, not at all with the Sennheisers (at normal listening levels).

I've been using the Sonys for about the last year and a half. Tape hiss is still significantly less loud on the headphones than from the speakers, but at least it doesn't get by me unnoticed.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Juha on
Looks like Asus Xonar Essence has some hissing trouble - http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/546291...tx-from-44-1khz


Begs the question of how a card with this technical performance can sound hissy:



Either the headphone jack vastly underperforms the line outputs, or it provides a ton of reserve gain which someone engeged fully, and alos someone is using some drop-dead sensitive transducers.

I agree, this story doesn't pass the smell test.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #10 –
Quote from: AndyH-ha on
I don't know that it is applicable here, but I, of necessity, do the work on preparing my LP transfers for CD using headphones. I have a good soundcard, a good headphone amplifier, and good headphones, but there is noticeable fan noise from the computer. That could be fixed with enough money, but so could a lot of other things. Most of the time it is tuned out of my awareness.

For several years I used Sennheiser HD 600 phones, which are especially comfortable, sound very nice, have very good specs, and allowed me to pick up many low level vinyl defects that probably would rarely be noticed under normal listening for enjoyment conditions.

However, every once in a while, listening on the living room HiFi system, I would end up with a CD from an old album that had very intrusive tape hiss, hiss that I had found too low level to be very noticeable while working on the album, or that I had not noticed at all. I would checked back on the computer, and sure enough, no hiss problem there. Almost all of these albums could be made better (my evaluation) with more NR.

Being slow on the uptake, this went on for quite a while. I occasionally pondered why the HF response was so much better from my speakers (or the living room environment), but never really thought about the headphones.

One day I did not like the latest CD because of tape hiss. I didn't remember it at all from working on the album. Checking back, I just did not hear it on the computer. The computer fan noise does not sound like tape hiss, but could it be masking the hiss?

With a headphone extension cord I was able to go outside the computer room and close the door. That eliminated all computer noises. Now I could hear the hiss on the headphones. It still didn't seem anywhere as loud (relative to the music) as from the living room speakers, but it wasn't hard to hear.

Next I tried some Sony closed back headphones. These are not as nice to wear as the open back HD 600s, but the hiss was definitely louder. Back in the computer room I could still hear the hiss quite clearly with the Sonys, not at all with the Sennheisers (at normal listening levels).

I've been using the Sonys for about the last year and a half. Tape hiss is still significantly less loud on the headphones than from the speakers, but at least it doesn't get by me unnoticed.


This would be an example of why open-ear headphones are pretty worthless for live recording. One word: HD280, and they still aren't really isolating enough.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #11 –
Quote from: hdablin on
Quote from: Melomane on
Behringer UCA 202 , 30$...
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/behrin...202-review.html

Looks very interesting! But... it's unbelievable that $30 soundcard sounds as good as, for example, $200 AudioFire or $500 RME. Did anyone heard the UCA 202? How's it in comparison to other hardware listed in this thread?

<Offtopic> But I have a Sansa Clip + player, which is very cheap but sounds even better than iPod (and measurements confirm that), so I believe in cheap-but-good products.</Offtopic>

Arnold B. Krueger have one.
http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index....st&p=754333

Quote from: hdablin on
Quote from: Melomane on
edit : have RME digipad 96/8 to sell!

What's the price?


i can't really sell it, this was a joke...
you can find it for 100 € (second hand)

i can hear NO differences with internal sound card ...
i keep it because it is very usefull to make measurement, but it is really NOT usefull juste for listening.
Music is my first love.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #12 –
Regarding FW audio interfaces, by many audio production forums,
- FW controller based on TI chipset is kind of must
- Vista/Win7 brought many issues for FW audio ... (I believe many of those driver related issues are fixed already)


Juha

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #13 –
Quote
Quote from: Melomane on
Behringer UCA 202 , 30$...
http://nwavguy.blogspot.com/2011/02/behrin...202-review.html

Looks very interesting! But... it's unbelievable that $30 soundcard sounds as good as, for example, $200 AudioFire or $500 RME. Did anyone heard the UCA 202? How's it in comparison to other hardware listed in this thread?


I have a UCA 202 and use it for both recording and listening. I have a goodly collection of far more expensive audio interfaces including a LynxTWO, a Card Deluxe, a Delta 24192, etc.

There is a principle of audio that says that once a component achieves a certain level of performance, further improvements may produce impressive numbers, but they do not improve sound quality.

I have done a number of audio interface DBTs. Frankly, even a product as humble as the UCA 202 is scenically transparent - if you bypass it with a short audio cable as compared to connecting the output of its ADC to the input of its DAC, it does not create a reliably audible difference.  But you cannot repeat this sort of usage many, many times.

The audible difference provided by the more expensive audio interfaces is that you can repetitively route audio through them many more times without any audible effect.  If memory serves, 10 passes through a UCA 202 will produce an audible effect. The Card Deluxe will do 20 passes and still not be audible. The even higher performing products I mentioned, such as the Lynx TWO can probably handle several dozen passes.

Audiophiles typically only convert audio from digital to analog once in normal use. Those of us who do audio production may need to do a number of conversions.

I also use my UCA 202 for acoustical audio measurements. A number of friends have seen me do this and have obtained UCA 202s of their own.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #14 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
I have a UCA 202 and use it for both recording and listening. I have a goodly collection of far more expensive audio interfaces including a LynxTWO, a Card Deluxe, a Delta 24192, etc.

There is a principle of audio that says that once a component achieves a certain level of performance, further improvements may produce impressive numbers, but they do not improve sound quality.


Yes, I understand. But I live in a place, where I cannot buy any audio components expect Sound Blaster Cards or various "boombox"'es. The price of delivery from USA or Europe is quite high, so I want to buy an audio interface that I should not replace during next update of my audio system.

------
My current stere system (maybe it's an important info) is:
1. CD-player: Yamaha CDX-10000
2. Amplifier: Yamaha A-750 (will be upgraded to Yamaha AX-2000 soon)
3. Speakers: Yamaha NS-700X (will be upgraded to Yamaha NS-1000X soon).

Yes. I'm a really Yamaha's fan. I like the "sound signature"  of my system and my sister's Yamaha Piano Craft's one. I'm not sure weather one of heard it, but if you did, you will probably understand me better.

Do you think, that I cannot hear any difference beetwen the DACs mentioned above?


Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
I have done a number of audio interface DBTs. Frankly, even a product as humble as the UCA 202 is scenically transparent - if you bypass it with a short audio cable as compared to connecting the output of its ADC to the input of its DAC, it does not create a reliably audible difference.  But you cannot repeat this sort of usage many, many times.


It seems, that I can hear the difference beetwen sound from my sound blaster and sound from my CD player. Do you think that it is a kind of placebo effect?

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Audiophiles typically only convert audio from digital to analog once in normal use.

That's exactly how I want to use the device :)

As Yamaha's fan, I should ask how do you think about Yamaha's audio interfaces / soundcards? What do you think about audiogram3 ($100-150) or My4/My6 series?

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #15 –
Quote from: hdablin on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
I have a UCA 202 and use it for both recording and listening. I have a goodly collection of far more expensive audio interfaces including a LynxTWO, a Card Deluxe, a Delta 24192, etc.

There is a principle of audio that says that once a component achieves a certain level of performance, further improvements may produce impressive numbers, but they do not improve sound quality.


Yes, I understand. But I live in a place, where I cannot buy any audio components expect Sound Blaster Cards or various "boombox"'es. The price of delivery from USA or Europe is quite high, so I want to buy an audio interface that I should not replace during next update of my audio system.

------
My current stere system (maybe it's an important info) is:
1. CD-player: Yamaha CDX-10000
2. Amplifier: Yamaha A-750 (will be upgraded to Yamaha AX-2000 soon)
3. Speakers: Yamaha NS-700X (will be upgraded to Yamaha NS-1000X soon).

Yes. I'm a really Yamaha's fan. I like the "sound signature"  of my system and my sister's Yamaha Piano Craft's one. I'm not sure weather one of heard it, but if you did, you will probably understand me better.

Do you think, that I cannot hear any difference beetwen the DACs mentioned above?


I don't know about every DAC ever made! ;-)

What I do know is that if you don't do a carefully-controlled listening test that matches  levels, synchronizes the music, and controls bias, you will probably hear a difference of a kind that seems real to just about everybody.

Quote
Quote

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
I have done a number of audio interface DBTs. Frankly, even a product as humble as the UCA 202 is scenically transparent - if you bypass it with a short audio cable as compared to connecting the output of its ADC to the input of its DAC, it does not create a reliably audible difference.  But you cannot repeat this sort of usage many, many times.



It seems, that I can hear the difference beetwen sound from my sound blaster and sound from my CD player. Do you think that it is a kind of placebo effect?



There are FAQs and stickies here about doing blind tests. You might want to study them.

Quote
Quote
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
Audiophiles typically only convert audio from digital to analog once in normal use.

That's exactly how I want to use the device

As Yamaha's fan, I should ask how do you think about Yamaha's audio interfaces / soundcards? What do you think about audiogram3 ($100-150) or My4/My6 series?



I have found that the world is full of audio interfaces and DACs that sound the same, and a number of them that are so flawed in terms of design, execution, and maintenance that they actually do sound different. It's hard to provide reliable opinons from a distance.

Issues with the design, execution, and maintenance of an PC audio interface can be investigated using a piece of freeware named the Audio Rightmark. If something is wrong enough to hear, it will point it out.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #16 –
Quote from: hdablin on
It seems, that I can hear the difference beetwen sound from my sound blaster and sound from my CD player. Do you think that it is a kind of placebo effect?


somes (quite old) soundblasters have internal resample problems

so it is possible than you can hear differences

try to add in foobar2000 dsp resampler set to 48kz

here RMAA result for
audigy at 44/16
http://audio.rightmark.org/test/audigy/cre...udigy-1644.html
live !
http://audio.rightmark.org/test/creative-l...3;5.1-1644.html

compare with RME digi96/8
http://audio.rightmark.org/test/rme/digi968pst/digi1644.htm
linx two
http://audio.rightmark.org/test/lynx-two-b-1644.html
m-audio audiophile 24/96
http://members.chello.nl/rclaasse/RMAA/M-A...hile%202496.htm
esi Juli@
http://www.ixbt.com/multimedia/esi/julia/e...-balanced.shtml
Music is my first love.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
There are FAQs and stickies here about doing blind tests. You might want to study them.


I'm going to try those blind tests. I'll post the results here.

Quote from: Melomane on
somes (quite old) soundblasters have internal resample problems
so it is possible than you can hear differences
try to add in foobar2000 dsp resampler set to 48kz
here RMAA result

Unfortunately, I do not have neither Windows, nor foobar. So I cannot take this advice, sorry. And many thanks for useful RMAA tests.

-------

Now I did some more search. I combined the results into the following table (maybe, it will be useful for other nubies (like me)):


Disclaimer: I'm not an expert by no means. I didn't heared or measured any of these cards, the values in the table are found on the Internet (in various forums / sites / documents). I tried to insert only true values in the table, but I cannot verify any of them. If you see a mistake, please, let me know. I'll try to correct it as soon as possible.

Notes:

1.Dynamic range describes the ratio of the softest sound to the loudest sound in a musical instrument or piece of electronic equipment. This ratio is measured in decibels (abbreviated as dB) units. The more is better.

2. Signal-to-noise ratio (often abbreviated SNR or S/N) is a measure used in science and engineering to quantify how much a signal has been corrupted by noise. It is defined as the ratio of signal power to the noise power corrupting the signal. A ratio higher than 1:1 indicates more signal than noise.   In less technical terms, signal-to-noise ratio compares the level of a desired signal (such as music) to the level of background noise. The higher the ratio, the less obtrusive the background noise is. The less is better.

3. The total harmonic distortion, or THD, of a signal is a measurement of the harmonic distortion present and is defined as the ratio of the sum of the powers of all harmonic components to the power of the fundamental frequency. Lesser THD allows the components in a loudspeaker, amplifier or microphone or other equipment to produce a more accurate reproduction by reducing harmonics added by electronics and audio media. A THD rating < 1% is considered to be in high-fidelity and inaudible to the human ear. THD+N means total harmonic distortion plus noise. This measurement is much more common and more comparable between devices. The less is better.

4. Intermodulation or intermodulation distortion (IMD) is the unwanted amplitude modulation of signals containing two or more different frequencies in a system with nonlinearities. The intermodulation between each frequency component will form additional signals at frequencies that are not just at harmonic frequencies (integer multiples) of either, but also at the sum and difference frequencies of the original frequencies and at multiples of those sum and difference frequencies. Intermodulation is rarely desirable in radio or audio processing, as it creates unwanted spurious emissions, often in the form of sidebands. For radio transmissions this increases the occupied bandwidth, leading to adjacent channel interference, which can reduce audio clarity or increase spectrum usage. The IMD+N is for Intermodulation distortion plos noise. The less is better.

5. PCI / PCI-e means that the card is available in both PCI and PIE-express factors.


Question to more experienced members:
According to the table, Asus Xonar is better than such highly regarded professional devices as Lynx L22 and RME 9652. What is it: mistake in the table, mistake in measurements, mistake in somewhat else or... Xonar is really better?

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #18 –
Quote from: hdablin on
Question to more experienced members[/b]:
According to the table, Asus Xonar is better than such highly regarded professional devices as Lynx L22 and RME 9652. What is it: mistake in the table, mistake in measurements, mistake in somewhat else or... Xonar is really better?


This a link to  the results of my technical tests on the LynxTWO, which is supposed to be just the 4 channel version of the L22:

LynxTWO technical test results

I think I obtained better and more repesentative numbers.

One other thing - the LynxTWO and L22 are professional-grade tools and as such they are optimized for different operational conditions that are more appropriate for use with other audio production gear. This means that they have balanced inputs and outputs and are designed to work at higher signal levels than equipment designed for consumer use.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #19 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
This a link to  the results of my technical tests on the LynxTWO, which is supposed to be just the 4 channel version of the L22:
LynxTWO technical test results
I think I obtained better and more repesentative numbers.

Thank you for your help again, Arnold B. Krueger!
I need to read some theoretical info to understend your measurements fully. But dynamic range of Lynx TWO looks more plausible than in my table )

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
One other thing - the LynxTWO and L22 are professional-grade tools and as such they are optimized for different operational conditions that are more appropriate for use with other audio production gear. This means that they have balanced inputs and outputs and are designed to work at higher signal levels than equipment designed for consumer use.

Thank you for the warning.

One more question: what do you think about RME HDSP 9652 in comparison with Lynx L22 / Lynx Two?

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #20 –
Quote from: hdablin on
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
There are FAQs and stickies here about doing blind tests. You might want to study them.


I'm going to try those blind tests. I'll post the results here.


I have done a single-blind test. If I'm not mistaken in interpreting the results, I do not hear the difference between Audigy 4 and my CD-player. It was quite unexpected to find that there is no actual difference betwen the sources.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #21 –
Quote from: hdablin on
One more question: what do you think about RME HDSP 9652 in comparison with Lynx L22 / Lynx Two?


No clue. RME is not a strong market force in the US. We have M-Audio, Lynx, eMu, etc.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #22 –
First of all thank you, Arnold B. Krueger, hlloyge, Melomane and all the members who participated this thread! You save a lot of my money :))

I did a blind test (my CD-player vs. Creative Audigy 4 OEM) and found that I cannot hear the difference. So, I think that my source is not the weakest point of my audio-system. Well, I'm going to improve the speakers or / and the amp, instead of source firstly.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #23 –
Quote from: hdablin on
First of all thank you, Arnold B. Krueger, hlloyge, Melomane and all the members who participated this thread! You save a lot of my money )

I did a blind test (my CD-player vs. Creative Audigy 4 OEM) and found that I cannot hear the difference. So, I think that my source is not the weakest point of my audio-system. Well, I'm going to improve the speakers or / and the amp, instead of source firstly.


Your logic seems solid as far as it goes.  Sources can have a wide variety of different audible flaws. The number of kinds of audible flaws is almost limitless.  If two sources have audible flaws, it seems unlikely that they would have flaws that are similar enough that they could not be distinguished. 

There are two general possibilities:

(1) The two sources are free of audible flaws.

(2) Audible flaws elsewhere in the system keep you from hearing audible flaws that you would be able to hear if your system had better performance.

IME the best way to distinguish the two situations is to bring in a replacement for most of your system that you know has sufficient resolving power to eliminate possibility (1).  IME a good headphone amp such as an FIIO E5 and a good pair of headphones such as Sennheiser HD 280s (or competitive products)  have sufficient resolving power to evaluate whether or not your two sources have important audible differences that the rest of your system lacks the resolving power to make audible to you.

There is a third possible problem, and that is that you are dealing with audible problems that are in general audible, but which you personally don't notice because of either medical problems with your hearing or your personal  lack of training with  hearing audible flaws.

I think that if you spend some time using DBTs to listen for differences among MP3s that are known to have audible differences, that your knowledge about the sensitivity of your hearing will be made clearer to you.

PC DAC: RME 9652 vs. RME 9632 vs. Lynx L22 vs. AudioFire 2

Reply #24 –
Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
IME a good headphone amp such as an FIIO E5 and a good pair of headphones such as Sennheiser HD 280s (or competitive products)  have sufficient resolving power to evaluate whether or not your two sources have important audible differences that the rest of your system lacks the resolving power to make audible to you.

How do you think, will the test without a headphone amp be enough correct to compare the sources? I can plug the earphones (EarSonics SM3 v1) / headphones (Sony DR-S4 or Yamaha Electone) directly to sound card's out and to headphones out of CD-player. I know that there may be difference between sound from headphones out and from line out, but still hope the difference will not be very sufficient. 

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
There is a third possible problem, and that is that you are dealing with audible problems that are in general audible, but which you personally don't notice because of either medical problems with your hearing or your personal  lack of training with  hearing audible flaws.

I didn't check my hearing with an audiologist, but I have run some online hearing tests and have a stable result at 35Hz - 20kHz (or even 21 according to one of the tests).

Quote from: Arnold B. Krueger on
I think that if you spend some time using DBTs to listen for differences among MP3s that are known to have audible differences, that your knowledge about the sensitivity of your hearing will be made clearer to you.

Thank you for the advice. I'l post the report later.