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Topic: A MP2 Fanatic Post (Read 10449 times) previous topic - next topic
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A MP2 Fanatic Post

Damn this old MPEG Encoder is really giving incredible result...
Early 1999,I use to encode my wave files with this gem...
Now,4 years after,I' tried again to code some hard-to-code samples (fatboy,etc...) and I have to to say that @256kbps the result is really great !

Can you trust that old MP2 ISO routines gives such a high quality ?!
I'm talking about my favorite MP2 Encoder: SoloH MPEG Encoder !!
(and proud to use it  ).

PS: I'm definitely not joking at all...
PS: Psycho modele 1.

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #1 –
Use MPC (which is based off of MP2) and you'll get similar (or better) quality at an even lower bitrate!

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #2 –
yes but MP2 is more compatible 

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #3 –
with what?
地獄

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #4 –
probably dvd players?

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #5 –
Everything.
There are dozens of portables which play mp2 and none I know of which play mpc.

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #6 –
Do you use version 0.07a? Was there ever a newer one?

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #7 –
Quote
Do you use version 0.07a? Was there ever a newer one?

no,fhg has sent him a "nice" email...
youi can imagine the next chapter...
So 0.07 is the last version 

8Hz MP3 : same story.
and many more...FhG doesn't like ISO "independant" encoders.

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #8 –
layer3maniac>
yes I use 0.07a

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #9 –
Speakin of MP2, what about TooLame?

Most VCD/SVCD authoring softwares seem to utilize TooLame. How it currently compares in the MP2 field, or in general (vs. other formats)?

EDIT: Okay, I already found some answers using the search.

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #10 –
Quote
yes but MP2 is more compatible 

Compatible with DVD players,any Media player...etc...
It's a big advantage ,don't you think ?
MP2 is a standard (DVD,Digital TV,DAB...),MPC is not.
MPC is better quality but I doubt there are differences @256 or above....

That's why I can conclude MP2 still has its legitimacy.
Regards,
Nick

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #11 –
Quote
Quote
yes but MP2 is more compatible 

Compatible with DVD players,any Media player...etc...
It's a big advantage ,don't you think ?

Some portable player too.
I bought 18 month ago a very cheap Napa mp3 player (DAV 316) ; I discovered recently that it can read mp2 files (toolame encodings). I supposed that the chip embeded in this player is used on others one.
Wavpack Hybrid: one encoder for all scenarios
WavPack -c4.5hx6 (44100Hz & 48000Hz) ≈ 390 kbps + correction file
WavPack -c4hx6 (96000Hz) ≈ 768 kbps + correction file
WavPack -h (SACD & DSD) ≈ 2400 kbps at 2.8224 MHz

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #12 –
You all know about the findings, which psy model should be used for best results with mp2enc (dll) or toolame.exe (there is a thread I think in mpc technical forum) ?

bitrates 160 kbit/s and below: psy 2

bitrates 224 kbit/s and higher: psy 1

(tested with stereo setting, as stereo provides better surround info than joint stereo in mp2.
And yes, bitrates of 160 stereo and below sound good, as long as you use psy 2.
160 stereo and below with psy 1 sound.....)


My favourite proggies:

HeadAC3he (with mp2enc.dll)
or:
BeSweet (in Besweet modus select either mp2enc.dll or toolame.dll; toolam.exe in Besweets batch modus)

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #13 –
It could be interresting to compare SoloH,Toolame,HeadAC3he and/or MP2enc found in CDex.
I'm gonna use fatboy,castanet and some other (problematic) samples...

I aim to show which codec is better , no matter how the bitrate is:
192 or 256 is not important since preecho is the big problem of audio codecs (aka I prefer lame 128 than Xing 320 for fatboy).
It's not a problem to raise up the br, bitrate's artefacts are more easily avoidable than preecho.

I'll upload this day some flac samples using MP2 encoders @ 192 or 224...
the competition is open !

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #14 –
Preecho is much less problem on subband codecs than on transform ones.
MPEG Layer 2 and MusePack are subband codecs.
Vorbis, AAC, MPEG Layer 3 are transform or hybrid codecs.

Correct me if I'm wrong.
ruxvilti'a

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #15 –
You're right !
but preecho is still present on MP2...

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #16 –
Quote
BeSweet (in Besweet modus still mp2enc.dll, but toolame.exe in BeSweets Batch modus available.)

BeSweet uses the same mp2enc.dll from CDEX, and also comes with toolame.dll v0.2l  .
in BeSweetGUI's 2lame form, you can choose the encoding engine (tooLame/MP2ENC).

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #17 –
I've done lots of encoding with MP2, notably tooLAME, but I am hesistant to use it for anything but movies because even at 384kbps, there doesn't seem to be much HF content above 16Khz (rock music, verified on a spectrograph), regardless of the psy model used. At bitrates this high, I would expect that the entire spectrum would be encoded (up to 20Khz, anyway). Yes, I can hear a difference, since my MP2 files are played on my "good" stereo components via the DVD player. Test files burned onto DVD-RW sound much duller than the PCM originals. Any comments on this, or is this to be expected with tooLAME? Is the SoloH encoder any better in this regard?

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #18 –
To be honest Cygnus X1, if I respect the hard work done by Mike Cheng, I see @192 stereo psy model 1, this encoder gives bad results for the sample you've tested (fatboy).

SoloH, for his part, cuts the siganl between 17/18 kHz and 19,5 kHz depending of the complexity of the wave.
PS: it seems that Psy model 1 has a higher cutoff than Psy model 2.
Psy model 2 cutoff is about 16/17 kHz for the few tracks I've encoded.

conclusion, Musicam is prefered as AT&T, IMHO

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #19 –
" PS: it seems that Psy model 1 has a higher cutoff than Psy model 2.
Psy model 2 cutoff is about 16/17 kHz for the few tracks I've encoded. "


well, this is not new, there is a thread in MPC forum of HA.

as I told above:

psy 1 for high bitrates, 224 and higher,

psy 2 for low bitrates, 160 and lower.


at that time, I did not test 192 stereo, as I was only interested in mp2 either for really quality, ie. 224, 256 kbit, or for smaller size, to save space on CD-R for the video part, so 128, 160 kbit mp2 was interesting.
and yes, 128, 160 mp2 sound good, if you select psy 2, but dull, if you would chose psy1 for 160 and lower.
at low bitrates, psy 1 has a LOWER cutoff of the highs than psy 2 !
At 224 it is vice versa, psy 1 offers more highs than psy2.

so, I assume, at 192 kbit, it is a kind of a draw between psy1 and psy2.
perhpas you test it with a spectrograph and by listening tests, like I did for 128, 160, 224.

(Hans  Heijden tested mp2 256 or higher, and told, too, that psy1 is preferred.
some others told, that mp2 with psy2 sounds better for the lower bitrates.
So, these findings are consistent.)

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #20 –
A while ago I heard something about an upcoming tool for MPC files that could convert them to ISO standard MP2 files (or possibly the other way around  )...

Is this just a rumor or could such a thing be possible?

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #21 –
<shivers>

Dude, SoloH is pure dist10 code. MPEG reference sources. Worst possible quality.

Have you tried doing ABC/HR comparing to other MP2 encoders?

And no, I don't mean using castanets/fatboy as samples. That proves nothing. You need to use everyday types of songs to decide what's better for you.

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #22 –
Have you ever heard about MPEG-1 Layer I? This thingy is supposed to be more than transparent at bitrates as low as 384 kbps for both fatboy AND castanets! And the best thing is that Philips even produced a hardware portable for it!! 
ZZee ya, Hans-Jürgen
BLUEZZ BASTARDZZ - "That lil' ol' ZZ Top cover band from Hamburg..."
INDIGO ROCKS - "Down home rockin' blues. Tasty as strudel."

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #23 –
Hey, people, I use MP2Enc v0.10 from RareWares site... Is there any frontend to be used with this codec? BTW, I am very satisfied with it 

A MP2 Fanatic Post

Reply #24 –
Quote
A while ago I heard something about an upcoming tool for MPC files that could convert them to ISO standard MP2 files (or possibly the other way around   )...

Is this just a rumor or could such a thing be possible?

No. I think the rumours (or plans) where more about making musepack able to output in MP2 format (obviouly, with less quality than MPC, but supposedly better quality than MP2 Encoders)