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Best Speakers for FLAC, Computer Speakers to appreciate FLAC
Jp4ragon
post Dec 26 2012, 16:54
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Hey everyone,

I have been wanting to appreciate the quality of FLAC files over mp3 while listening to them on my PC and have been looking into getting a new sound system. My wife surprised me for Christmas and got me a Logitech z-5500, but after doing some research, I am under the impression that this is not a good system for being able to appreciate FLAC (lack of clarity on z5500, made for gaming, etc). Is this true?

If so and if I return the logitech, my budget is between 300-600 dollars and i'm looking for a good recommendation on speakers I can hook up to my PC to listen to FLAC; 2.1 is preferred because the room I have isn't best for surround sound. Anyone have any good recommendations? I'd really appreciate any input here.

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Woodinville
post Dec 27 2012, 10:42
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My observation is "um, not computer speakers". FLAC should be no worse than any other media from CD, ever, of course.

I will point to various MPEG tests that show while MP3 and AAC have very, very good results, they do not in fact manage, in the MPEG tests, to be indistinguishable from PCM.

But they are (*(*& good.


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J. D. (jj) Johnston
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db1989
post Jan 16 2013, 18:41
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QUOTE (Woodinville @ Dec 27 2012, 09:42) *
I will point to various MPEG tests that show while MP3 and AAC have very, very good results, they do not in fact manage, in the MPEG tests, to be indistinguishable from PCM.
Please do point to these tests, or at least clarify their conclusions and implications for lossy codecs. I’m not questioning your experience and knowledge, but this statement, out of context, seems too general and risks misleading people into thinking they will always be able to hear a difference in lossy audio (perhaps assuming they spend a load of money on snake oil first).
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krabapple
post Jan 17 2013, 16:43
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 16 2013, 12:41) *
QUOTE (Woodinville @ Dec 27 2012, 09:42) *
I will point to various MPEG tests that show while MP3 and AAC have very, very good results, they do not in fact manage, in the MPEG tests, to be indistinguishable from PCM.
Please do point to these tests, or at least clarify their conclusions and implications for lossy codecs. I’m not questioning your experience and knowledge, but this statement, out of context, seems too general and risks misleading people into thinking they will always be able to hear a difference in lossy audio (perhaps assuming they spend a load of money on snake oil first).


Are yous suggesting that lossy audio at high enough bitrates *cannot ever* be distinguished from its PCM counterpart?

Even hear on HA we have seen credible reports of 320 kbps LAME mp3 encodes being ABX'd. It's rare and I'm not convinced anyone can routinely tell them apart (including self-professed 'audiophile' mp3-haters) -- but that doesn't mean it's impossible. It depends on who you are (e.g., a codec developer, trained to hear lossy artifacts?) and what you a have encoded, as well as the codec.

This post has been edited by krabapple: Jan 17 2013, 16:43
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db1989
post Jan 17 2013, 16:48
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QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 17 2013, 15:43) *
Are yous suggesting that lossy audio at high enough bitrates *cannot ever* be distinguished from its PCM counterpart?
Of course not. All I said was that the specific way in which Woodinville referred to the tests might be misleading. I assume they were highly thorough tests designed to catch out even the best codec. But other readers might read that, not think about its actual implications, and just take it to mean that MPEG-based codecs are never going to be transparent. I had to do a double-take, so I don’t think it’s impossible that somebody with (even) less technical knowledge and/or a latent bias against lossy codecs might misinterpret Woodinville’s intended meaning.
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krabapple
post Jan 18 2013, 09:16
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QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 17 2013, 11:48) *
QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 17 2013, 15:43) *
Are yous suggesting that lossy audio at high enough bitrates *cannot ever* be distinguished from its PCM counterpart?
Of course not. All I said was that the specific way in which Woodinville referred to the tests might be misleading. I assume they were highly thorough tests designed to catch out even the best codec. But other readers might read that, not think about its actual implications, and just take it to mean that MPEG-based codecs are never going to be transparent. I had to do a double-take, so I don’t think it’s impossible that somebody with (even) less technical knowledge and/or a latent bias against lossy codecs might misinterpret Woodinville’s intended meaning.



It depends on how you define 'transparent'. If you mean 'transparent to most people under most conditions', that reflects the actual state of play for high quality lossy. But no lossy codec at any setting that I know of is claimed to be transparent to all listeners.

This post has been edited by krabapple: Jan 18 2013, 09:23
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Posts in this topic
- Jp4ragon   Best Speakers for FLAC   Dec 26 2012, 16:54
- - tpijag   You may be setting yourself up for disappointment....   Dec 26 2012, 17:16
|- - Jp4ragon   QUOTE (tpijag @ Dec 26 2012, 17:16) You m...   Dec 26 2012, 17:21
- - andy o   "Doing some research" on audio equipment...   Dec 26 2012, 17:24
- - Apesbrain   Although your assumption about FLAC being "be...   Dec 26 2012, 18:19
|- - Nick.C   QUOTE (Apesbrain @ Dec 26 2012, 17:19) Al...   Dec 26 2012, 20:15
- - pawelq   Make sure you try small studio monitors, these are...   Dec 26 2012, 19:44
- - Jp4ragon   Okay well then it's a bit more complicated tha...   Dec 26 2012, 22:28
- - ech3   I would say be appreciative of the gift your thoug...   Dec 27 2012, 00:37
|- - Jp4ragon   QUOTE (ech3 @ Dec 27 2012, 00:37) I would...   Dec 27 2012, 00:47
- - Porcus   If you want detailed sound which may increase your...   Dec 27 2012, 02:26
- - FreaqyFrequency   The Z-5500 is a phenomenal system for 2.1 playback...   Dec 27 2012, 02:45
|- - Jp4ragon   Thanks for the input and feedback everyone; I...   Dec 27 2012, 05:24
- - DVDdoug   I've never heard those speakers... I alwa...   Dec 27 2012, 02:59
|- - Andavari   I always chuckle when people want "the best...   Jan 18 2013, 18:44
|- - probedb   QUOTE (Andavari @ Jan 18 2013, 17:44) QUO...   Jan 19 2013, 20:28
|- - 2tec   QUOTE (Andavari @ Jan 18 2013, 11:44) QUO...   Feb 2 2013, 20:36
|- - greynol   QUOTE (2tec @ Feb 2 2013, 11:36) I assume...   Feb 2 2013, 20:51
|- - 2tec   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 2 2013, 13:51) QUOTE...   Feb 2 2013, 21:55
- - FreaqyFrequency   I'm not watching movies on this system these d...   Dec 27 2012, 07:04
- - Funkstar De Luxe   If I was you, I'd buy some Yamaha HS-80M. Che...   Dec 27 2012, 10:29
- - Woodinville   My observation is "um, not computer speakers...   Dec 27 2012, 10:42
|- - garym   I've had very good luck with audioengine A2 sp...   Dec 27 2012, 14:52
|- - db1989   QUOTE (Woodinville @ Dec 27 2012, 09:42) ...   Jan 16 2013, 18:41
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 16 2013, 12:41) QUOTE...   Jan 17 2013, 16:43
||- - db1989   QUOTE (krabapple @ Jan 17 2013, 15:43) Ar...   Jan 17 2013, 16:48
||- - krabapple   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 17 2013, 11:48) QUOTE...   Jan 18 2013, 09:16
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (db1989 @ Jan 16 2013, 12:41) QUOTE...   Jan 17 2013, 17:03
- - tuffgong   I bought the b+w mm-1 usb computer speakers used f...   Jan 11 2013, 06:06
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (tuffgong @ Jan 11 2013, 00:06) I b...   Jan 11 2013, 06:42
|- - greynol   QUOTE (tuffgong @ Jan 10 2013, 21:06) --A...   Jan 11 2013, 06:51
|- - tuffgong   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 10 2013, 23:51) QUOT...   Jan 11 2013, 07:09
|- - krabapple   QUOTE (tuffgong @ Jan 11 2013, 01:09) Thi...   Jan 14 2013, 05:11
- - greynol   I'm not trying to suggest the speakers are bad...   Jan 11 2013, 07:14
|- - Rescator   QUOTE (greynol @ Jan 11 2013, 07:14) I...   Jan 11 2013, 09:18
|- - saratoga   QUOTE (Rescator @ Jan 11 2013, 03:18) I d...   Jan 12 2013, 01:34
|- - mzil   QUOTE (Rescator @ Jan 11 2013, 04:18) I...   Jan 16 2013, 07:22
- - tuffgong   Oh I see your point now, sorry haven't posted ...   Jan 11 2013, 07:19
- - tuffgong   I think the O.P. might be implying he loves two ch...   Jan 12 2013, 01:21
- - Mach-X   In theory thx certification requires home theater ...   Jan 14 2013, 06:23
- - tuffgong   Mach-x do you have any articles to check out about...   Jan 16 2013, 04:51
|- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (tuffgong @ Jan 15 2013, 22:51) Mac...   Jan 16 2013, 14:46
|- - mzil   QUOTE (tuffgong @ Jan 15 2013, 23:51) Mac...   Jan 16 2013, 17:41
- - KozmoNaut   I'll throw in a vote for the Audioengine A2s, ...   Jan 16 2013, 13:51
- - Arnold B. Krueger   QUOTE (Jp4ragon @ Dec 26 2012, 10:54) If ...   Jan 16 2013, 14:48
- - mccarthyk   I agree with most of the people here. All of my m...   Jan 17 2013, 17:09
- - greynol   Just to reiterate Porcus's reply and some of m...   Jan 18 2013, 21:20
- - greynol   So you agree with me then.   Feb 2 2013, 21:59
- - 2tec   QUOTE (greynol @ Feb 2 2013, 14:59) So yo...   Feb 2 2013, 22:25


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